03-15-2015, 07:53 AM
Since it has been brought up, but not quite grasped, I will speak again on yon, anon. All the uses of yon can be removed, or replaced by the word "the" and the poem will be better for it (if this were in serious I would delineate each one, but as it is not, I won't). Two examples only.
"is the same yet yon dog is gone thither" --> "is the same yet the dog is gone thither" the thither already makes the "yon" redundant.
some of the other instances:
"he's gone wandering again yon down by the river" --> "he's gone wandering again down by the river"
"Down" already implies what yon would and it doesn't sound silly in the process.
I knew this guy once that people called Steve "fuck" Davis "fuck, because he would interject the word "fuck" anywhere he could, even in between the syllables of a single word. I guaran-fucking-tee-ya he would. This sounds like his type of dialect if he could just replace the word "yon" with the word "fuck."
"he's gone wandering again fucking down by the river" See, fits perfectly.
Regardless of the dialect, which the writer does not seem to handle well, "yon" and "down" would not be used together as they are obviously redundant. Even in dialects, phrase patterns follow certain rules, this would seem to violate one of those rules. Besides, outside of the use of "yon," there is little to tell that this is a dialect, unless you wish to cite awkward syntax and non-sentences. All dialects have their own internal beauty in terms of syntax, such internal consistency is no where present here. I would conclude that whatever dialect the writer is trying to approximate here, he has certainly missed the mark; Mark Twain that is and he ain't!
The lack of punctuation is cute, and totally damaging to the poem. There can be no logical rationale for abandoning it here, nor the lack of capital letters at the start of sentences; I have already mentioned syntax. Also some other fun affectation. 'afar - afar is spelled afar, there has never been a letter that preceded it that a hyphen replaces. The hyphen is solely a matter of affection, or poorly structured dialectal word. The only time I have seen it used as such is in another language that uses a hyphen to signify a different thing than what it does in English, or in SciFi novels when trying to make a name or place sound exotic, often by bastardizing a French word (of course French is a bastard's language anyway). If one substituted a hyphen for the "a" that is already there as an attempt to show the lack of emphasis the dialect places in the "a", possibly something along the idea of a soft cough, or something similar the how someone with a Cologne dialect in Germany pronounces the "i" in ich, as almost a hissing sound, but from the throat. Unless there is a consonant that precedes the "a" such as a "c" making it "cafar" but the "c" not being hardly pronounced and dropping the "c" and putting in the hyphen to illustrate that, there is simply no reason to do so. This is especially true as the context definitely makes it clear that "afar" is in fact the intended word.
Now, we have that boring stuff out of the way, on to the poem. Here are two truths about the poem. The narrator is the relative or caretaker of the person with dementia. If the poorly worded phrases are an attempt at a particular dialect by the writer, it is clearly seen that translating that dialect to the written word is beyond the writer's current abilities. There are few dialects that I feel comfortable attempting, and this is after many years of studying them. Still to this day I still stumble time and again over how to translate what I have heard into words in such a way as to accurately capture those sounds. Writing in dialect in not for the causal participant. Not only it extremely difficult to translate the sounds into readable words, it is also just as necessary to write in such a way as to give an approximation and not overwhelm the reader with to much technically difficult minutia. For an excellent way dialect should be handled I recommend studying Samuel Clemens' (aka Mark Twain) "Adventures of Huckleberry Finn."
As to the plot: This is a poem story. It tells the story of an unnamed male with moderate to sever dementia. He has again wondered off and not returned, as the dog has returned without him. Evidently, he is generally cognitively on the ball enough that he makes it back or why would anyway allow him to go down to the river. This time however he has become confused and wondered off. Panic ensues, however he his eventually found. He is obviously in an agitated state, as one would expect, as demonstrated by having to be spoken to in calming manner "shush talks".
All of this is well traveled ground, nothing of any original insight is put forth. One could glean the same story by reading a few of the thousands of stories out on the internet on the topic.
That this is an attempt at dialect I will not dispute, however passages like the following would generally make me suspect there was an attempt at stream of consciousness, but not just from speaker to speaker, but from thought to though.
"takes him by the arm to yon waiting white car bids the uniformed children shush talks all the way friendly everyday familiar until they got home"
I will say one thing, if this is an accurate portrayal of an actual dialect, I will be glad if I never have to encounter it. I have heard some very strange and obscure English dialects, most of them originating in some kind of hilly or mountainous region and I have never heard anything near as meaningless as what is written here.
Regardless the two primary aspects of this poem, as the writer does not seem to avail himself of much else, the dialect and the story, appear to fail in whatever it was they were suppose to accomplish.
The writer may respond that I have no idea what I am talking about, that it is a perfectly decent portrayal of the dialect. That may be. What I do know is that as the reader, that I would get less than halfway through this before I would discard it. If that is the response the writer is seeking, he has certainly achieved it.
__________________________________________________________________________
OK, the test of Asgard, or Ripple, or what-the fuck-ever you wanna call it. It's time to fess up, what dialect is this actually suppose to be? Sure we'll probably laugh, what dews you 'spect after you bean such a Nuss-rod about it. So sit rear-wise downt-hare, an speard your protolaxes ona dis sher log and popoutta answer. No squirmen and squiblim and getten spars in yer butt, no onesa gonna think yer a pork-u-pine an feel sorrow fer ya. So turn round and face da music. Thar ya go, nayer doen et lika hog in wet clay!
Translation (jus n'case): Sure we'll probably laugh, what do you expect after you've been such a snob about it. So sit here on this log and give us the answer. Don't be trying to get out of it through misdirection, or trying to get people to feel sorry for you: own up to what you've done. That's correct, now you are slowly doing it.
Dale
"is the same yet yon dog is gone thither" --> "is the same yet the dog is gone thither" the thither already makes the "yon" redundant.
some of the other instances:
"he's gone wandering again yon down by the river" --> "he's gone wandering again down by the river"
"Down" already implies what yon would and it doesn't sound silly in the process.
I knew this guy once that people called Steve "fuck" Davis "fuck, because he would interject the word "fuck" anywhere he could, even in between the syllables of a single word. I guaran-fucking-tee-ya he would. This sounds like his type of dialect if he could just replace the word "yon" with the word "fuck."
"he's gone wandering again fucking down by the river" See, fits perfectly.
Regardless of the dialect, which the writer does not seem to handle well, "yon" and "down" would not be used together as they are obviously redundant. Even in dialects, phrase patterns follow certain rules, this would seem to violate one of those rules. Besides, outside of the use of "yon," there is little to tell that this is a dialect, unless you wish to cite awkward syntax and non-sentences. All dialects have their own internal beauty in terms of syntax, such internal consistency is no where present here. I would conclude that whatever dialect the writer is trying to approximate here, he has certainly missed the mark; Mark Twain that is and he ain't!
The lack of punctuation is cute, and totally damaging to the poem. There can be no logical rationale for abandoning it here, nor the lack of capital letters at the start of sentences; I have already mentioned syntax. Also some other fun affectation. 'afar - afar is spelled afar, there has never been a letter that preceded it that a hyphen replaces. The hyphen is solely a matter of affection, or poorly structured dialectal word. The only time I have seen it used as such is in another language that uses a hyphen to signify a different thing than what it does in English, or in SciFi novels when trying to make a name or place sound exotic, often by bastardizing a French word (of course French is a bastard's language anyway). If one substituted a hyphen for the "a" that is already there as an attempt to show the lack of emphasis the dialect places in the "a", possibly something along the idea of a soft cough, or something similar the how someone with a Cologne dialect in Germany pronounces the "i" in ich, as almost a hissing sound, but from the throat. Unless there is a consonant that precedes the "a" such as a "c" making it "cafar" but the "c" not being hardly pronounced and dropping the "c" and putting in the hyphen to illustrate that, there is simply no reason to do so. This is especially true as the context definitely makes it clear that "afar" is in fact the intended word.
Now, we have that boring stuff out of the way, on to the poem. Here are two truths about the poem. The narrator is the relative or caretaker of the person with dementia. If the poorly worded phrases are an attempt at a particular dialect by the writer, it is clearly seen that translating that dialect to the written word is beyond the writer's current abilities. There are few dialects that I feel comfortable attempting, and this is after many years of studying them. Still to this day I still stumble time and again over how to translate what I have heard into words in such a way as to accurately capture those sounds. Writing in dialect in not for the causal participant. Not only it extremely difficult to translate the sounds into readable words, it is also just as necessary to write in such a way as to give an approximation and not overwhelm the reader with to much technically difficult minutia. For an excellent way dialect should be handled I recommend studying Samuel Clemens' (aka Mark Twain) "Adventures of Huckleberry Finn."
As to the plot: This is a poem story. It tells the story of an unnamed male with moderate to sever dementia. He has again wondered off and not returned, as the dog has returned without him. Evidently, he is generally cognitively on the ball enough that he makes it back or why would anyway allow him to go down to the river. This time however he has become confused and wondered off. Panic ensues, however he his eventually found. He is obviously in an agitated state, as one would expect, as demonstrated by having to be spoken to in calming manner "shush talks".
All of this is well traveled ground, nothing of any original insight is put forth. One could glean the same story by reading a few of the thousands of stories out on the internet on the topic.
That this is an attempt at dialect I will not dispute, however passages like the following would generally make me suspect there was an attempt at stream of consciousness, but not just from speaker to speaker, but from thought to though.
"takes him by the arm to yon waiting white car bids the uniformed children shush talks all the way friendly everyday familiar until they got home"
I will say one thing, if this is an accurate portrayal of an actual dialect, I will be glad if I never have to encounter it. I have heard some very strange and obscure English dialects, most of them originating in some kind of hilly or mountainous region and I have never heard anything near as meaningless as what is written here.
Regardless the two primary aspects of this poem, as the writer does not seem to avail himself of much else, the dialect and the story, appear to fail in whatever it was they were suppose to accomplish.
The writer may respond that I have no idea what I am talking about, that it is a perfectly decent portrayal of the dialect. That may be. What I do know is that as the reader, that I would get less than halfway through this before I would discard it. If that is the response the writer is seeking, he has certainly achieved it.
__________________________________________________________________________
OK, the test of Asgard, or Ripple, or what-the fuck-ever you wanna call it. It's time to fess up, what dialect is this actually suppose to be? Sure we'll probably laugh, what dews you 'spect after you bean such a Nuss-rod about it. So sit rear-wise downt-hare, an speard your protolaxes ona dis sher log and popoutta answer. No squirmen and squiblim and getten spars in yer butt, no onesa gonna think yer a pork-u-pine an feel sorrow fer ya. So turn round and face da music. Thar ya go, nayer doen et lika hog in wet clay!
Translation (jus n'case): Sure we'll probably laugh, what do you expect after you've been such a snob about it. So sit here on this log and give us the answer. Don't be trying to get out of it through misdirection, or trying to get people to feel sorry for you: own up to what you've done. That's correct, now you are slowly doing it.
Dale
How long after picking up the brush, the first masterpiece?
The goal is not to obfuscate that which is clear, but make clear that which isn't.
The goal is not to obfuscate that which is clear, but make clear that which isn't.