01-17-2020, 06:33 AM
The
I believe that every line and every word of a poem should be chosen with intense intent. I may not always accomplish that, but I am foolish enough to believe that most of the time I do. Our discussions have been a great emphasizer of that for me. These discussions also emphasize that I am severely lacking in ability to convey that meaning and intent effectively. Thank you again for everything you have done. The majority find that going back and forth with me is too tedious, but I am able to attain a great deal of information through these discourses. Thank you for your endurance and patience.
(01-17-2020, 04:23 AM)Knot Wrote:
Hi Joshua,
turns out some of us didn't know that a storm surge and a tidal surge were synonyms. 
(And in the (helpful) example you quote, they use 'storm' twice.)
The fist line of Wikipedia's page about storm surge: "A storm surge, storm flood, tidal surge or storm tide is a coastal flood or tsunami-like phenomenon of rising water commonly associated with low pressure weather systems (such as tropical cyclones and strong extratropical cyclones)."
I'm also not sure that a 'surging' tide is, necessarily, the same as a 'surge tide'. If you'd written safe beyond the gushing/swelling/swirling tide (all synonymous with surging) there would be no sense of threat, and I think that's where the ambiguity/problem lies.
The American Heritage Dictionary [A dictionary recommended by several lexicographers] has the following entry for "surge":
v. surged, surg·ing, surg·es
v.intr.
1. To rise and move in a billowing or swelling manner.
2. To roll or be tossed about on waves, as a boat.
3. To move like advancing waves: The fans surged forward to see the movie star.
4. To increase suddenly: As favorable reviews came out, interest in the software surged.
5. To improve one's performance suddenly, especially in bettering one's standing in a competition.
6. Nautical To slip around a windlass. Used of a rope.
v.tr.
1. To make a dramatic increase in: "Since the attacks in Paris, we've surged intelligence-sharing with our European allies" (Barack Obama).
2. Nautical To loosen or slacken (a cable) suddenly.
n.
1. A powerful wave or swell of water.
2. a. A sudden rushing motion like that of a great wave: The surge of the herd forced some animals into the river.
b. The forward and backward motion of a ship subjected to wave action.
3. a. A sudden on rush or increase: a surge of joy; a surge in prices.
b. A period of intense effort that improves a competitor's standing, as in a race.
c. A sudden, transient increase or oscillation in electric current or voltage.
d. Astronomy A brief increase in the intensity of solar activity such as X-ray emission, solar wind, solar flares, and prominences.
v.intr.
1. To rise and move in a billowing or swelling manner.
2. To roll or be tossed about on waves, as a boat.
3. To move like advancing waves: The fans surged forward to see the movie star.
4. To increase suddenly: As favorable reviews came out, interest in the software surged.
5. To improve one's performance suddenly, especially in bettering one's standing in a competition.
6. Nautical To slip around a windlass. Used of a rope.
v.tr.
1. To make a dramatic increase in: "Since the attacks in Paris, we've surged intelligence-sharing with our European allies" (Barack Obama).
2. Nautical To loosen or slacken (a cable) suddenly.
n.
1. A powerful wave or swell of water.
2. a. A sudden rushing motion like that of a great wave: The surge of the herd forced some animals into the river.
b. The forward and backward motion of a ship subjected to wave action.
3. a. A sudden on rush or increase: a surge of joy; a surge in prices.
b. A period of intense effort that improves a competitor's standing, as in a race.
c. A sudden, transient increase or oscillation in electric current or voltage.
d. Astronomy A brief increase in the intensity of solar activity such as X-ray emission, solar wind, solar flares, and prominences.
The Online Etymology Dictionary informs us that surge is derived: from Latin surgere "to rise, arise, get up, mount up, ascend; attack,"
I struggle finding any other modifier as intense as "surge", and as closely related to waves and water. If the reader does not think that "surging tide" is the same as "surge tide" then I believe the poem will remain the same if they modify "tide" with "surging" and its accepted definition.
As a matter of curiosity, were you not restricted by the 'side' rhyme would you have said Safe beyond the tidal surge?
I would not have, nor was I restricted by it. After jotting down thoughts and ideas I started jotting down lines. "Beyond the surging tide" was one of the original lines. "Side" came about latter after parsing down one of the other lines. I believe the fist daft of this poem had couplets and and pentameter lines, and the side/tide couplet was in the first stanza.
Perhaps a modifier for 'surge' would help? Safe beyond the wild/fell surge tide?
Maybe it would, but it would probably be better to strike the line. Surging tide has been consistently considered by the readers as problematic. Ironically from one of the early drafts it was a phrase that was recommended as one to build around. But since then it has only garnered the reader's ire.
I believe that every line and every word of a poem should be chosen with intense intent. I may not always accomplish that, but I am foolish enough to believe that most of the time I do. Our discussions have been a great emphasizer of that for me. These discussions also emphasize that I am severely lacking in ability to convey that meaning and intent effectively. Thank you again for everything you have done. The majority find that going back and forth with me is too tedious, but I am able to attain a great deal of information through these discourses. Thank you for your endurance and patience.
Joshua J. Smith