kiss again (an etheree)

[Jeffrey Gibson]

Kiss
again
my throat, my
ears, my eyes, my
hands, my naked thighs,
my toes, my fingertips.
Your kiss is a maddening,
a god’s voice, a rage against my
skin that makes me senseless to my sense
of where I end and where I, rough, begin.

[milo]

Kiss
again
my throat, my
ears, my eyes, my
hands, my naked thighs,
my toes, my fingertips.
Your kiss is a maddening,
a god’s voice, a rage against my
skin that makes me senseless to my sense
of where I end and where I, rough, begin.

Nice job, john.

It is an interesting experiment. As a poem many might find it a little boring as it doesn't really say anything new or original. I think good modern poems about kissing need to dwell in the intamacy and sensuous rather than hyperbole. (Your kiss is a god's voice actually makes me laugh, it reads a little pubescent).

Thanks for posting.

[Jeffrey Gibson]

Nice job, john.

Umm ... John?


Jeffrey

[milo]

Nice job, john.

Umm ... John?


Jeffrey

Oops, sorry. There is an interesting lesson in simile here if you will indulge me.

As poets we want to take the abstract or unrelatable and compare it to the concrete or relatable to create an experience for the reader. You have done the opposite here. You have taken something we can relate to (a kiss) and described it in a way we can't relate to (god's voice).

Think how much more powerful it is to describe god's voice as a kiss.

[Jeffrey Gibson]

Nice job, john.

Umm ... John?


Jeffrey

Oops, sorry. There is an interesting lesson in simile here if you will indulge me.

As poets we want to take the abstract or unrelatable and compare it to the concrete or relatable to create an experience for the reader. You have done the opposite here. You have taken something we can relate to (a kiss) and described it in a way we can't relate to (god's voice).

Think how much more powerful it is to describe god's voice as a kiss.

Isn't that sort of what I did?

Jeffrey

[milo]

Umm ... John?


Jeffrey

Oops, sorry. There is an interesting lesson in simile here if you will indulge me.

As poets we want to take the abstract or unrelatable and compare it to the concrete or relatable to create an experience for the reader. You have done the opposite here. You have taken something we can relate to (a kiss) and described it in a way we can't relate to (god's voice).

Think how much more powerful it is to describe god's voice as a kiss.

Isn't that sort of what I did?

Jeffrey

You did the opposite, you took something we.can all relate to (a kiss) and attempted to describe it in terms none of us have experienced (god's voice)

Good poetry takes the conceptual (gods voice) and makes it relatable (a kiss)

[Jeffrey Gibson]

Isn't that sort of what I did?

Jeffrey

You did the opposite, you took something we.can all relate to (a kiss) and attempted to describe it in terms none of us have experienced (god's voice)

[/quote]

Ha! Speak for yourself!

Maybe I've been reading too much Homer lately, but I have some idea from that what a god's voice is like and how much like a kiss it is to those who hear it.

Jeffrey

[milo]

Isn't that sort of what I did?

Jeffrey

You did the opposite, you took something we.can all relate to (a kiss) and attempted to describe it in terms none of us have experienced (god's voice)

Ha! Speak for yourself!

Maybe I've been reading too much Homer lately, but I have some idea from that what a god's voice is like and how much like a kiss it is to those who hear it.

Jeffrey
[/quote]
You have an idea because good poets described it to you using things you have experienced but you have never experienced it. You have experienced a kiss.

Anyway, I don't want to get too caught up in this but it is a good rule of thumb to keep in mind, always have the item you are comparing to (the object of) grounded in shared experience. You never.want to describe things in terms of something no one has experienced.

[Jeffrey Gibson]

You have an idea because good poets described it to you using things you have experienced but you have never experienced it.

And you know this how?
.

Anyway, I don't want to get too caught up in this but it is a good rule of thumb to keep in mind, always have the item you are comparing to (the object of) grounded in shared experience. You never.want to describe things in terms of something no one has experienced.

Perhaps you'll tell that to Rumi, not to mention all the OT prophets and those of their ilk and in their wake who claim otherwise.

In any case, whether experienced or not, it has been imagined and articulated, and given this, it seems perfectly legitimate to me to say that this X (this touch this kiss, etc.) is what (I've been told) the experience of having a god speak to you must be like.

Jeffrey

[milo]

Anyway, I don't want to get too caught up in this but it is a good rule of thumb to keep in mind, always have the item you are comparing to (the object of) grounded in shared experience. You never.want to describe things in terms of something no one has experienced.

Perhaps you'll tell that to Rumi, not to mention all the OT prophets and those of their ilk and in their wake who claim otherwise.

In any case, whether experienced or not, it has been imagined and articulated, and given this, it seems perfectly legitimate to me to say that this X (this touch this kiss, etc.) is what (I've been told) the experience of having a god speak to you must be like.

Jeffrey

Jeffrey

Anything is legitimate it just isn't good poetry. It is actually one of the first things most writers learn about analogy. If you don't want to use it or get better, you are free to continue describing real experiences in terms of the inaccessible forever, but your reader suffers for it

[bena]

The line that bothered me most was L7 --might be a language barrier issue, but maddening is the adjective form, and I *think* you've used it as a noun because it doesn't modify anything. You could use maddeningness, but that's just an oddball of a word to me. Like I said it could be the difference of countries, not sure.

I didn't mind so much the god's voice, because I think certain things are very transient by nature...and a really nice kiss is.

mel.

[Jeffrey Gibson]

The line that bothered me most was L7 --might be a language barrier issue, but maddening is the adjective form, and I *think* you've used it as a noun because it doesn't modify anything. You could use maddeningness, but that's just an oddball of a word to me. Like I said it could be the difference of countries, not sure.

As the OED shows, maddening is also a noun:

maddening, n.
Etymology: < madden v. + -ing suffix1.

The act or fact of making or becoming mad [in the sense of "crazy" not "angry"]

1775 J. Ash New & Compl. Dict. Eng. Lang. Suppl., Maddening, the act of making mad.
2001 www.salon.com 14 Dec. (O.E.D. Archive) , With their repeated vague warnings of imminent terrorist attacks, our national leaders risk achieving something similar—a maddening of the country's mood.

I didn't mind so much the god's voice, because I think certain things are very transient by nature...and a really nice kiss is.

Yes, and I'm sure that people have a pretty good idea about what a god's voice is/might be like, whether they have experienced it or not. The idea is not contentless.

In any case, thanks for your kind words.

Jeffrey

[Jeffrey Gibson]

Sounds ok Jeffers but I think it would sound better with one more line added so it goes like this.



Kiss
again
my throat, my
ears, my eyes, my
hands, my naked thighs,
my toes, my fingertips.
my bald slap head

What do you think?

First, my name is Jeffrey, not Jeffers. Please respect that.

Second, this is 3 fewer lines, not one more.

Third, do you know what an etheree is?

Jeffrey

[Keith]

The line that bothered me most was L7 --might be a language barrier issue, but maddening is the adjective form, and I *think* you've used it as a noun because it doesn't modify anything. You could use maddeningness, but that's just an oddball of a word to me. Like I said it could be the difference of countries, not sure.

As the OED shows, maddening is also a noun:

maddening, n.
Etymology: < madden v. + -ing suffix1.

The act or fact of making or becoming mad [in the sense of "crazy" not "angry"]

1775 J. Ash New & Compl. Dict. Eng. Lang. Suppl., Maddening, the act of making mad.
2001 www.salon.com 14 Dec. (O.E.D. Archive) , With their repeated vague warnings of imminent terrorist attacks, our national leaders risk achieving something similar—a maddening of the country's mood.

I didn't mind so much the god's voice, because I think certain things are very transient by nature...and a really nice kiss is.

Yes, and I'm sure that people have a pretty good idea about what a god's voice is/might be like, whether they have experienced it or not. The idea is not contentless.

In any case, thanks for your kind words.

Jeffrey

Hi Jeffery
This is the first time I've seen an etheree so thank you for the introduction, could I just say you seem to be struggling with the workshop, I think you have had some great feedback here that would help you improve the poem, you make a very good case for not changing or nullifying critique, however the point remains open that maddening just doesn't sound right to the average reader and it can cause a stumble. As for the suggestion from Milo about a switcharoo on how you could change the focus, I though this was an excellent suggestion and very helpful. I'm not sure what you want to achieve and you are relatively new to the site but reading your replies does not make me want to offer crit even when it is obvious you could benefit from it. In my opinion you will put people off commenting and that would be a shame because you obviously have a lot to offer this community and I have really enjoyed reading your poetry. Best TOMH

[Jeffrey Gibson]

Hi Jeffery
This is the first time I've seen an etheree so thank you for the introduction, could I just say you seem to be struggling with the workshop, I think you have had some great feedback here that would help you improve the poem, you make a very good case for not changing or nullifying critique, however the point remains open that maddening just doesn't sound right to the average reader and it can cause a stumble. As for the suggestion from Milo about a switcharoo on how you could change the focus, I though this was an excellent suggestion and very helpful. I'm not sure what you want to achieve and you are relatively new to the site but reading your replies does not make me want to offer crit even when it is obvious you could benefit from it. In my opinion you will put people off commenting and that would be a shame because you obviously have a lot to offer this community and I have really enjoyed reading your poetry. Best TOMH

Thanks for your thoughts.

Jeffrey

[billy]

First, my name is Jeffrey, not Jeffers. Please respect that.

first off, we're not that kind of place jeff, we accept nic's as nic's and not as real life name, as such we have no laws on enforcing people to use nic's verbatim.
almost nailed it on the syllable count apart from L7.
for me some of the line breaks feel forced, like i'm pausing when i should be reading. some lines feel as though they could be perked up by using words of more than one syllable. (okay, the last line)
all the my are of minor issue for me but to end three of ten lines with my sort of sticks out like a sore thumb
thanks for the read.

Kiss
again
my throat, my
ears, my eyes, my
hands, my naked thighs,
my toes, my fingertips.
Your kiss is a maddening, [6] instead of [7]for me this is the best line because of it's ambiguity
a god’s voice, a rage against my
skin that makes me senseless to my sense feels awkward, are you saying it makes you senseless? i'm not sure but don't you either have sense or you don't.
of where I end and where I, rough, begin. a bit wordy but a decent finish

[Jeffrey Gibson]

almost nailed it on the syllable count apart from L7.

I assumed and worked from my understanding that "maddening" is a 3 syllable word.

See here:

http://www.howjsay.com/index.php?word=maddening

This being the case, then the syllable count is correct, yes?

In any case, perhaps you'll try your hand at an etheree.

Jeffrey