people telling me I suck

[cheyrn]

I'm taking my marbles and going home. Thanks people. I liked you. You didn't like me. Teletubbies offer advice about human interaction.

[rowens]

you were my only precious love

Only precious love, as in the other loves weren't precious? If so, all right.


you taught me how to disappear
within my adolescent whims
crushed by the man
who ripped the veil off
of my pleasure


I understand the first two lines of the stanza, they're all right, but they could be said better.
The last two lines, maybe

who ripped the veil
from my pleasure

unless you think that changes your meaning.


he, the rapist, made me equal
to his kind
to my kind now

Those three lines work for me. They're the kind of lines that can be great when there is more to back them up.
But after this point the poem seems to lose focus. The metaphors seem unnecessarily vague and arbitrary, like you were discussing elsewhere.

born unfit for woman kind
I see you still behind your shell
I feign a smile and wish you well
my only love right there inside you
slave to time by your own choosing. I
wanted guilt for my abusing
but there was none

and now I give apologies
to anyone who takes the knife
and drives it through me

you were my only precious love
I held you once
and you unraveled
now you’re selling you as chattle
but there was no bell to answer

that was my time
forever after
I still can kiss you
in my dreams

I once observed
a shining sphere
it promised me
to bring you near

and I believed it
luckily

[cheyrn]

a message

[rowens]

I just think the few poetic techniques you use make things both less clear and less effective.

[ellajam]

Hi, cheyrn, and welcome.

I can't say much about your poem yet because I just can't make sense of it, starting at S1. Is the rapist the precious love? If not, where is the separation? I'm gender confused throughout here. It may just be me, but I can't follow it. Maybe punctuation would help, maybe not. I hope someone else can be of more help to you.

Again, welcome.

What I said in another post about being afraid of being crushed was not accurate. I don't get crushed by criticism very easily. It's what I am here for. I meant that I notice myself hesitating.

Ooh, baby ooh

you were my only precious love
you taught me how to disappear
within my adolescent whims
crushed by the man
who ripped the veil off
of my pleasure

he, the rapist, made me equal
to his kind
to my kind now

born unfit for woman kind
I see you still behind your shell
I feign a smile and wish you well
my only love right there inside you
slave to time by your own choosing. I
wanted guilt for my abusing
but there was none

and now I give apologies
to anyone who takes the knife
and drives it through me

you were my only precious love
I held you once
and you unraveled
now you’re selling you as chattle
but there was no bell to answer

that was my time
forever after
I still can kiss you
in my dreams

I once observed
a shining sphere
it promised me
to bring you near

and I believed it
luckily

[cheyrn]

a message

[cheyrn]

a message

[rowens]

The poem has no context within itself that would lead anyone to see these lines:

you were my only precious love
I held you once
and you unraveled
now you’re selling you as chattle
but there was no bell to answer

that was my time
forever after
I still can kiss you
in my dreams

I once observed
a shining sphere
it promised me
to bring you near


as anything but generic. Except the last part which is an obscure self reference, or an allusion to something else you wrote that no one here has seen. You can get away with self allusions or mysterious sounding things if the poem is interesting enough to have people want to read your other stuff or deeply contemplate the mysteries, or even admire something obscure for its surface values.


If you want to squeeze the essence out of the story and have people assume and create things out of that, the poem still needs to be stimulating and well written.

[cheyrn]

I will take your word for it. But, what am I supposed to do with that advice?

Honestly, I am unable to see what doesn't make sense. This is all concerning very important (to me) events in my life, and I see all of the references and imagine how they could be interpreted if I were another person. If I could have help on where I am being blind it would be a big help. But, I think I should withdraw this poem. Or, otherwise say that I will not be anticipating additional criticism. I welcome additional criticism though.

[rowens]

It all makes perfect sense, and people could spend hours chasing that elusive mylar balloon, but the poem isn't very interesting because it's so typical.

[cheyrn]

Thanks?

---

It's worth expanding on that I think. Some cliches are profound. I don't think this poem is profound. But, my point is that how unique something is has no artistic value.

"Talent" has no artistic value.

Being "jaded" is to be ignorant of things that remind you of a bias that you have, based on complacency.

When I was playing music, the criticism I encountered a lot was that it all sounds the same. But, all opera sounds the same if you are not very perceptive. So, essentially, there is "stuff I think is music" and "experiments". The comment is then that, that experiment has already been tried so go back to what I think is music.

Two "experiments" will likely have some common tendencies, just as "stuff that is music" will have common tendencies.

There are other things to criticize something about that are more articulate than that it is typical. Allowing for "less talent" in art, to be acepted as art, does not make them all equal. If an idea that is being expressed is for the purpose of seeking acceptance in some sort of trend, that has on artistic value and it is useful to have it pointed out where that is happening.

[clemonz]

is this flarf, i dunno?

---

how unique something is has no artistic value.

"Talent" has no artistic value.

hold on.

both of these terms convey an artistic value. you say or think for whatever reason that your poems stand up to scrutiny without having these values.

so i ask you, politely,,, if you are less naive than you would have use believe?

[cheyrn]

Well, my mind might be. But, no it is all how I represented some historical events in my life. The wording references things that are personal and emotional. So, I was sort of expecting someone to have a different reaction to those parts.

It occured to me that I could read this in sort of a "poetry jam" type of voice and I would find that annoying. So, maybe that is what is bothering people.

But, I am a novice. If you can't say something nice, then go ahead and say whatever. We're helping each other, I think.

[clemonz]

The wording references things that are personal and emotional

then it has the value of sincerity, do you think? or what, what value do you think it has?

i don't mean to sound overly critical! you do say

We're helping each other, I think.

if you are looking for something nice - then i have to say the title of your blog (poms) i find pretty amusing, i've used it myself on another forum. i like it said in a northern voice

[cheyrn]

It is not helping to be nice. It's crap, does not teach me anything either. Don't write poetry? Jump off a bridge?

I don't think poetry has value. Ranking makes no sense.

[clemonz]

no i'm not saying you shouldn't write poetry, just that maybe you'd be better off if you saw the value in existing poetry.

ok ?

[ellajam]

Hi, cheyrn, I'm going to give it another go and try to point out what is unclear to me. I agree the poem should need no explanation so I admit, I did not read yours too closely.

What I said in another post about being afraid of being crushed was not accurate. I don't get crushed by criticism very easily. It's what I am here for. I meant that I notice myself hesitating.

Ooh, baby ooh

you were my only precious love
you taught me how to disappear
within my adolescent whims
crushed by the man
who ripped the veil off
of my pleasure

he, the rapist, made me equal
to his kind
to my kind now

You were my only precious love,
you taught me how to disappear
within my adolescent whims.

I was crushed by the man
who ripped the veil off
of my pleasure.
He, the rapist, made me equal
to his kind
to my kind now.

Is this what you mean?

born unfit for woman kind who was born, you, girl or rapist?
I see you still behind your shell
I feign a smile and wish you well
my only love right there inside you
slave to time by your own choosing. I We're all slaves to time, please explain how in this case it is a choice
wanted guilt for my abusing who wanted guilt?
but there was none

and now I give apologies I still need more to understand apologies to attacker
to anyone who takes the knife
and drives it through me

you were my only precious love
I held you once
and you unraveled
now you’re selling you as chattle
but there was no bell to answer I don't understand the bell

that was my time
forever after
I still can kiss you
in my dreams

I once observed
a shining sphere
it promised me
to bring you near

and I believed it
luckily

I hope this gives you a start.

[tectak]

no i'm not saying you shouldn't write poetry, just that maybe you'd be better off if you saw the value in existing poetry.

ok ?

Because of the forum in which you and others in this diatribe have decided to expound, I would be tolerant if the comments helped the original poster. However, I see this going sour; please do try to keep a sense of consideration for the firmly, if erroneously, held views of others. The purpose of critique is to make better, not wound by opinion.
mod.

[clemonz]

no i'm not saying you shouldn't write poetry, just that maybe you'd be better off if you saw the value in existing poetry.

ok ?

Because of the forum in which you and others in this diatribe have decided to expound, I would be tolerant if the comments helped the original poster. However, I see this going sour; please do try to keep a sense of consideration for the firmly, if erroneously, held views of others. The purpose of critique is to make better, not wound by opinion.
mod.

seriously, dude, i was trying to be helpful and it seemed pretty pertinent as he/she just said:

I don't think poetry has value

???

[rowens]

Your story is more interesting than your poem. You could mention balloons and bongo burger and other means of context as parts of the poem as valid as rhymes or metaphors. So far your poem lacks so much context that it could be about any number of things. Your line about dreams has no hint of lucid dreaming, it sounds like just another "only in my dreams".