Haiku (maybe)

[Pyrra]

Tried to understand what a Haiku is. Let me know if I got it right :-)

Sometimes I just wish
I could push emotions out
like I can with shit.

[Emz]

Welcome Pyrra!

Close! This is a senryu. It follows the same format as a haiku, but a senryu deals with human nature rather than season nature. However, modern haiku poems don't abide by the content rule, so I suppose you could call it a modern haiku as well

Either way I like this, especially the last line!

Emma

[Erthona]

EMZ is correct, when  it deals with human foibles it is a senryū.

"Senryū (川柳?, literally 'river willow') is a Japanese form of short poetry similar to haiku in construction: three lines with 17 or fewer total morae (or "on", often translated as syllables, but see the article on onji for distinctions). Senryū tend to be about human foibles while haiku tend to be about nature, and senryū are often cynical or darkly humorous while haiku are more serious. Unlike haiku, senryū do not include a kireji (cutting word), and do not generally include a kigo, or season word"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senry%C5%AB

I don't quote Wiki as a primary source, but as I know this is correct, it is easy to cut and past.
________________________________________________________________________________

I like this also (push out emotions like shit), although I would drop the coma. I would say this sounds like something a guy would say, but it could also apply to a lot of women. I've notice that woman who are the most emotionally labile, are generally lacking in honest emotion.


Best,

dale

[Pyrra]

Thanks for setting that right, it is a senryu.
And the comma I have taken out, after I returned from the awkward thought-excursion your little typing mistake took me off to. I should take better care of use of my words.

[rayheinrich]

I  just wanted to state, for the record, that haiku are primarily about
human interaction with nature.

They are NOT about nature per se, but about humans observing nature.

And as such, they often contain many of the same subjects as  senryu which
haiku portray using nature as a metaphor.

It has often been noted that by not requiring a turn (cutting point, word, line),
senryu, in general, are not as effective as haiku in portraying the life we experience.
(But this point is often rendered moot; as many senryu do include a turn.)

By way of example:

Nine Haiku by Issa (One of the four great masters of haiku, the others being Basho, Buson, and Shiki.)
These were translated By Robert Hass (Who is, hands-down, the best translator of Japanese haiku.)

Don’t worry, spiders,
I keep house
  casually.


  New Year’s Day—
everything is in blossom!
  I feel about average.


  The snow is melting
and the village is flooded
  with children.


  Goes out,  
comes back—
  the love life of a cat.


  Mosquito at my ear—
does he think  
  I’m deaf?  


  Under the evening moon
the snail
  is stripped to the waist.


  Even with insects—
some can sing,
 some can’t.  


  All the time I pray to Buddha
I keep on
 killing mosquitoes.


  Napped half the day;
no one  
  punished me!

[billy]

yes, but did he get it right?

personally i'd go with senryu as i can't see a seasonal word.

i do like the last line; it has shit in it.

[rayheinrich]

yes, but did he get it right?

personally i'd go with senryu as i can't see a seasonal word.

i do like the last line; it has shit in it.

Of course it's senryu,  I just wanted to nip the associated haiku ignorance in the kigo.
But yeah, no fucking body reads anything anymore so I really don't know why I fucking bother.

And yes, shit, there's nothing more descriptive of nature than shit.
Or, to quote the bard:

        "If it ain't shit, it ain't natural."

[Erthona]

If we wanted to go linguistic on it, we could point out that "Shit" is derived from the Old English, which became the vulgar (read: close to nature) after the Norman conquest and the Latin dialect called Old French became the de facto high language. So "Shit" can be interpreted as a seasonal word.

the shit month of June
from pies seeds were fertilized
flowers were in bloom

So you see, if one drops ones rigid iconoclastic mindset, shit can easily be a seasonal word and the above a haiku. Besides, what we call haiku and senryū have nothing to do with the Japanese forms, so to argue an English poem within that context is pure balderdash in a pissoir. :p

dale

[rayheinrich]

If we wanted to go linguistic on it, we could point out that "Shit" is derived from the Old English, which became the vulgar (read: close to nature) after the Norman conquest and the Latin dialect called Old French became the de facto high language. So "Shit" can be interpreted as a seasonal word.

the shit month of June
from pies seeds were fertilized
flowers were in bloom

So you see, if one drops ones rigid iconoclastic mindset, shit can easily be a seasonal word and the above a haiku. Besides, what we call haiku and senryū have nothing to do with the Japanese forms, so to argue an English poem within that context is pure balderdash in a pissoir. :p

dale

I second and adopt your clear reasoning.
(Though June's a bit soon for shit's demotion. Maybe September or October?)