Rats In Cages, Edit #2

[UselessBlueprint]

[I can only gain so much reading responses to other people's poetry, so it has some merit to let you critique my own work. I've done much editing to this, and there are portions I am not satisfied with, so it will likely be edited many more times. The statements are not as solid as I would like, but that could only come in the final wave of edits.]

--Edit #2--
There are rats in cages and mazes that are happier than I am.
They do not kick walls or see constellations.
They do not think of life and death
Or balance them on dark and light fulcrums.

I watch them, fur and flesh over bone and brain.
I give them levers to pull, to see if they decide.

The levers move in silence.

Their futile bodies know the question;
Their noble beings have no answer.
Their lives are only chemical computers,
Chaotic twitches of mortal muscle,
Seeking validation for every bite.
They shake in self-awareness at the power of their hands.

In reflection they see their fur
Placed over skin that is not their own
Just before the glass breaks.



--Edit #1--
There are rats in cages and mazes that are happier than I am.
They do not count walls and stars.
They do not think of life and death or dark and light colors.

I watch them, fur and flesh over bone and brain.
I give them levers to pull, to see if they decide.

The levers move in silence.

It is a chemical, and a muscle.
It is computable, and yet chaotic.
Though in vain, I believe it is noble.
They shake in self-awareness at the product of their hands.
In reflection they see their fur
Placed over skin that is not their own
Just before the glass breaks.



--Original--
There are rats in cages and mazes that are happier than I am.
They do not count walls and stars and debts.
They do not think of life and death or dark and light.
They do not balance scales or walk with symmetry.
They are not scientists or philosophers.
I can observe these rats, and define them.
I give them levers to pull on, to see if they decide.
I am their judge, and their sentence is death.
Still they pull on my levers but never question why.
It is a chemical, and a muscle.
It is computable, and yet chaotic.
And though in vain, I believe it is noble.
It is violent and brings them pleasure
As they welcome peace and ponder war.
They shake in self-awareness at the product of their hands.
In reflection, they see their fur
Placed over skin that is not their own
Just before the glass breaks.

[theopenhearst]

I really like the premise, and the opening has a nice hook. I really like line 2, for example. However, if you're looking for some critique, I do think that it is a little befuddling and perhaps meaningless around the middle? Sorry, I'm trying to think of a critique! I really do like the subject matter

[QDeathstar]

[I can only gain so much reading responses to other people's poetry, so it has some merit to let you critique my own work. I've done much editing to this, and there are portions I am not satisfied with, so it will likely be edited many more times. The statements are not as solid as I would like, but that could only come in the final wave of edits.]

There are rats in cages and mazes that are happier than I am. i feel this line, and the poem in general is very wordy. I like cages and mazes as a phase
They do not count walls and stars and debts. who counts walls?, why stars? It has an opposite connotation than walls (prison) and debts
They do not think of life and death or dark and light. rats don't think of dark and light? Or do you mean good an evil. Say what you mean.... I would rephrase it as "lustful life or righteous death" even though maybe it is cliche then you can skip out on the meaningless grouping split between "or"
They do not balance scales or walk with symmetry. i can only think of the scales of justice but don't see the importance of walking with balance...
They are not scientists or philosophers.
I can observe these rats, and define them.
I give them levers to pull on, to see if they decide. these lines are ok
I am their judge, and their sentence is death. this line lacks impact. It's cliche and just hanging out in the middle. I feel like conjuring up some slavery/owner imagery might be more useful. Judges are fair, speaker doesn't seem to be, imo
Still they pull on my levers but never question why. this and the next several lights need to be redone, they make no sense, a scat of awkward phrasing and psuedo English.
It is a chemical, and a muscle.
It is computable, and yet chaotic.
And though in vain, I believe it is noble.
It is violent and brings them pleasure
As they welcome peace and ponder war.
They shake in self-awareness at the product of their hands.
In reflection, they see their fur
Placed over skin that is not their own
Just before the glass breaks.

Finally, I'll just add that the poem is dangerously close to being cliche as a whole, although it has some nice word groupings that Save it. I would work on a more unique title. Despite all my rage I am still just a rat in a cage,

[Erthona]

UselessBlueprint,

" The statements are not as solid as I would like"

This statement sort of puts the nail in the coffin, this is more a (creative)philosophical treatise than a poem. In the greater scheme of things that doesn't really matter, what does matter is the the virtual absence of poetic tropes. I suppose one could argue that the piece in its entirely approach metaphor, but I don't see it. It is self-indulgent irony at best. Except for love poetry, the only other kind of writing that appears most often (especially in the contemporary world, although I suspect, humans, being what they are, it has always been the case), is the depressive self-introspection. When I used to write this sort of thing, I was criticized for being to much in my head. I suspect they were being kind. It would be easy to criticize this sort of writing, but really it just chronicles our passage through a certain portion of life.
There are some likable aspects here. The idea of nobility seems a worthwhile on. The idea of the unconscious or even addictive actions that seem to doom us. The idea that enlightenment to this only causes bewilderment and confusion.

"They shake in self-awareness at the product of their hands.
In reflection, they see their fur
Placed over skin that is not their own"

There is ungainliness, such as:

"I give them levers to pull on, to see if what they decide."  (Words should always be considered at a premium in poetry, use them judicially and correctly). 

There is an over long number of lines telling what "they" are not in the beginning. My response to such information is , so what? Telling me what they "are not" tells me nothing.

"They do not beat their children for stealing and eating the yellow and green taffy hidden in the cookie jar over the refrigerator...."

Some of these lines are just odd "They do not count walls (how many walls can one count) and stars and debts."
________________________________________________________________________________________

My question is what is the writer trying to accomplish, or is this just some sort of stream of consciousness experiment?

Do not be discourage (I'm sure you will discard what you don't like out of hand anyway, that's the human thing to do). As I note below it usually takes time for the first Masterpiece

Best,

Dale

[UselessBlueprint]

Thanks to all for the feedback. I've started my next wave of edits.
Some notes and reasons:
Lines 4, 5, 8, 13, and 14 have been deleted. These were tangents that took up far too much space in the piece and disrupted the intended line of thought.
Several lines in the remaining portion have been edited, to increase clarity (decrease some vagueness) and trim out a bit of the wordiness.
I've also added breaks to the piece, as I've finally chosen were to draw the distinctions (trimming helped with this).


Line 2: 'and debts' deleted. A tangent point that was lazily added in the first wave of edits.
Line 3: added 'colors' to the end of the clause. This narrows the focus of the line (almost enough). Rather than speaking of "dark and light" as if they were abstract nouns, they are now qualifiers to the word "colors." This is likely to be edited later, as the focus is still not exactly skin-tight.
Line 6: Simplified, but still incomplete. Less wordy. Rather than saying that the rats can be defined, I choose to give a definition.
Line 9: Less wordy, but less clear. This line is marked to be edited further.

[*Line numbers in the original work]

The final lines are still awaiting revision.

@Qdeathstar,
The grouping and the split with "or" in line 3 is not meaningless, I can assure you of that. It may not be particularly strong, but until I find the right way to make the distinction I am looking for, it will stay. It's also not as simple as "good and evil." "lustful life or righteous death" is even more over-worded, and not at all what I mean.
Balancing scales and walking with symmetry was removed -- useless tangent.
I'm not exactly sure I'd go as far as saying judges are actually fair, but I took that line out -- useless tangent.
There's a certain method to the phrasing of the final few lines, but it could stand to be tweaked.

Thank you for the feedback.

@Erthona (Dale)
What sort of poetic "tropes" do you look for? Alliteration, assonance, etc? I'm much less familiar with English poetry, so I tend to rely on the devices I am familiar with.
"
My question is what is the writer trying to accomplish, or is this just some sort of stream of consciousness experiment? "
I would probably say that it is an experiment in several ways, but not regarding a "stream of consciousness." It should come across with a philosophical feel, but definitely not to the extent that it did. The first draft was even worse in that regard. Hopefully this edit relieves a little bit of that. While several lines still might seem to read like weak rhetorical questions, this edit should, as a whole, be a little more clear and solid with its statements. I plan to continue reading this one over, work on the final six lines in detail again (hopefully clarify the "it"), and probably update the OP one or two more times.
Either way, thank you for the feedback.

(P.S., I'm not likely to be discouraged, as I am here to learn. See below.)

[Erthona]

Short list:

assonance
alliteration
onomatopoeia
rhythm
irony  
metaphor
simile
metonymy

I think if it is not going to have at least informal meter then there should be some sort of device in operation that energetically moves the poem along, such as rhythm, or it just becomes a laundry list.

Your first edit goes a long way towards resolving some of these problems.

Best,

dale

[Jeremiahcp]

[I can only gain so much reading responses to other people's poetry, so it has some merit to let you critique my own work. I've done much editing to this, and there are portions I am not satisfied with, so it will likely be edited many more times. The statements are not as solid as I would like, but that could only come in the final wave of edits.]

--Edit #1--
There are rats in cages and mazes that are happier than I am.
They do not count walls and stars.
They do not think of life and death or dark and light colors.

I watch them, fur and flesh over bone and brain.
I give them levers to pull, to see if they decide.

The levers move in silence.

It is a chemical, and a muscle.
It is computable, and yet chaotic.
Though in vain, I believe it is noble.
They shake in self-awareness at the product of their hands.
In reflection they see their fur
Placed over skin that is not their own
Just before the glass breaks.

I think the last stanza is great, and I would cut everything but that. Maybe make a few tweaks to help incorporate the initial thought process.

For your consideration:

Starting at the 3rd line of the last stanza: Though in vain, I find it noble. The way they shake in self-awareness at the product of their hands.  

The title of the poem will let us know you are talking about rats. To be honest,  I don't feel the poem really starts until that last stanza. 

---

Also since you are using punctuation I think you could safely take the 3rd line of the last stanza and drop half of it down to a new line, so that it looks a little neater.

[ellajam]

This is a sound edit, some notes below.

--Edit #1--
There are rats in cages and mazes that are happier than I am.
They do not count walls and stars.
They do not think of life and death or dark and light colors. I like the list of things they don't think about.

I watch them, fur and flesh over bone and brain.
I give them levers to pull, to see if they decide. Possibly what instead of if.

The levers move in silence. I think this works beautifully as a stand-alone line.

It is a chemical, and a muscle.
It is computable, and yet chaotic.
Though in vain, I believe it is noble. Not a fan of "I believe", possibly "it is somehow noble".
They shake in self-awareness at the product of their hands. I don't get this, after the levers is it  a product of their hands?

In reflection they see their fur
Placed over skin that is not their own
Just before the glass breaks.

Interesting poem, thanks for posting it.

[UselessBlueprint]

@Jeremiahcp
Interesting feedback. I feel the last stanza is weakest here, as I've really only made a couple of edits to it. Still working on more. It provides only one 'significant' statement, and feels a bit wasteful still. I will consider your suggestion on the edited L9.

@ellajam
I understand why "to see what they decide" would sound a bit better, but it would ruin the question that is being asked with that line. That's why I chose not to change it when it was suggested before. I might have to restructure that line so it fits better.
I will also consider your suggestion for the edited L9 (I'm not at all settled on how it is now).
The confusion of L10 is probably a product of poor structure and the fact that I have yet to elaborate on that portion or separate the thought. Basically, I still haven't found a way to clarify the "it" without breaking the definitions I am setting (as much of the poem is about definitions). It's also worth noting that L10 is an incomplete thought right now, and needs to be added to. As of now, I have not written anything that can properly accompany that line and complete the thought (which is separate from the aforementioned and still ambiguous "it.")

[QDeathstar]

Hi.

on the edit, overall I feel it is a drastic improvement. The line breaks help clearing it. It helps to cut through some of the wordiness, it kind of makes the first line stand out, and although it's still wordy it works better.


however, I still think the second and third line of the poem are weak... walls and stars? I guess if you wanted this could be hopelessness and hope, but it's just a little amaturish compared to the rest of the poem, and kinda repetive. Perhaps you could sum up the walls and stars, light and dark, life and death into a single thought, as the subjects are very similar imo.

[Achebe]

1. There are rats in cages and mazes that are happier than I am.
   
2. They do not count walls and stars.
   
3. They do not think of life and death or dark and light colors.
   
4. I watch them, fur and flesh over bone and brain.
   
5. I give them levers to pull, to see if they decide.
   
6. The levers move in silence.
   
7. It is a chemical, and a muscle.
   
8. It is computable, and yet chaotic.
   
9. Though in vain, I believe it is noble.
   
10. They shake in self-awareness at the product of their hands.
    
11. In reflection they see their fur
    
12. Placed over skin that is not their own
    
13. Just before the glass breaks.
    

1) - don't see the need for 'cages and mazes', since no rat lives in a maze. 'There are rats in cages happier than I' is less wordy, though prosaic. Up to you.
2) - do you count walls? why would counting stars make you unhappy? It's not related to the line above
3) - One too many 'they do not' - it's reading like dull prose. That rats don't think of life and death is not worthy of mention. 
4) - passable line
7) - What is 'it'?
8) - One too many 'it is' es
9) - A supremely frustrating line. What is this about? Some stupid rat has pulled a lever that's cracked open a bottle of cyanide? Why is that noble? Is it noble because the rat is sacrificing itself for your PhD thesis? The rat doesn't even know what a PhD thesis is. For me, this is the nadir of the poem
11- 13) - I have stopped reading at this point.

[UselessBlueprint]

Second edit completed, which is most likely the final edit to this I will include here. Thanks to all for feedback.
Notes on the edit: One line break added to separate the final three lines.
Significant edits to the final half, removing the painfully ambiguous "it."
Lines 2 and 3 have been reworked, probably not to the liking of anyone here. (life/death + dark/light have stayed)
Various word changes.

The only line I am not happy with is the current line 7.

[aschueler]

I'd keep working on clarifying this.

Having worked with real rats in skinner boxes, I feel this poem seems to be written in not totally authentic way, but can be molded into something better.

Rats push levers, not pull. Also, they beep when they push them.

Calling the rats chemical computers makes one very separate emotionally, but immediately before that

you call them noble, which confuses.

Thankfully rats don't generally shake in boxes, but if they were I believe most biologists would interpret that as serious distress, which may have been your intention; however you make it sound like power.

Finally, the end confuses the snot out of me. Is it broken glass over poison? Is it their cage and they are free to scurry about? Not to get stuck on technicals, but skinner boxes are plexiglass. And it seems to just miss tying it in with your unhappiness.

Please keep trying, there is a lot of good stuff here it just needs some polish.

[UselessBlueprint]

@aschueler
An interesting perspective, and actually pretty helpful. I don't think I'll post any further edits, but it's good to here from someone who has experience in the matter. Some of the technicalities are irrelevant, such as pushing the levers instead of pulling. Every instance I've heard of regarding such experiments says that they pull the levers, but I am by no means an authority on that matter. The matter of beeping, however, is one that concerns me a little. I understand completely that the action of the levers moving is not inherently silent, so there is a reason I make the note that they are silent in this instance. That said, I still don't like how I've written that line right now.
The phrase "chemical computers" should be looked at a bit carefully. Yes, I say the rats have noble beings, which should indicate an emotional factor. But the next step, calling them chemical computers, should have the effect of reducing that emotion to something physical, i.e., chemical reactions. Regarding the shaking, this line should be enough to say that these rats are not exactly just rats. I'm unsure about my use of the word "hands," as I feel it is too narrow for the point I am trying to make. And finally, the glass. The glass was originally a "window," which was a bit too specific for me. I expanded it to glass to allow the reader to consider a mirror, a window, or the cage walls. It seems most people assume a cyanide bottle, as I guess it's the most well-known experiment regarding such rats. On that note, I'll give a few points to consider when reading this piece.
1. The speaker does not say he is unhappy, only that these rats are happier.
2. The experiment in question is about if rats decide, not what they decide.
3. There is no mention of cyanide, cocaine, or any other sort of reward or punishment substance.
These three thing should be noted if anyone reads the piece a second time.

[aschueler]

@aschueler
An interesting perspective, and actually pretty helpful. I don't think I'll post any further edits, but it's good to here from someone who has experience in the matter. Some of the technicalities are irrelevant, such as pushing the levers instead of pulling. Every instance I've heard of  regarding such experiments says that they pull the levers, but I am by no means an authority on that matter. The matter of beeping, however, is one that concerns me a little. I understand completely that the action of the levers moving is not inherently silent, so there is a reason I make the note that they are silent in this instance. That said, I still don't like how I've written that line right now.
The phrase "chemical computers" should be looked at a bit carefully. Yes, I say the rats have noble beings, which should indicate an emotional factor. But the next step, calling them chemical computers, should have the effect of reducing that emotion to something physical, i.e., chemical reactions. Regarding the shaking, this line should be enough to say that these rats are not exactly just rats. I'm unsure about my use of the word "hands," as I feel it is too narrow for the point I am trying to make. And finally, the glass. The glass was originally a "window," which was a bit too specific for me. I expanded it to glass to allow the reader to consider a mirror, a window, or the cage walls. It seems most people assume a cyanide bottle, as I guess it's the most well-known experiment regarding such rats. On that note, I'll give a few points to consider when reading this piece.
1. The speaker does not say he is unhappy, only that these rats are happier.
2. The experiment in question is about if rats decide, not what they decide.
3. There is no mention of cyanide, cocaine, or any other sort of reward or punishment substance.
These three thing should be noted if anyone reads the piece a second time.

Actually I was a bit ... disenguine or maybe wrong about the beep.   When training rats, generally they step on (push) a lever to get a food reward after doing an action you are training;  that lever does have a goodly metallic thunk, though.  The beep  comes from the operator who pushes a button to tell the rat they did it right.

I didn't see cyanide et al, but after reading your points to consider I think by the end its still not clear what you are trying to express.  Knowing that may help you clarify.

[Brujo]

Hi my name is Nick and I am new to this forum.  Here are some of my notes on this.  


--Edit #2--
There are rats in cages and mazes that are happier than I am. This seems to be a very important line - but I don't see how happiness is addressed in the rest of the poem
They do not kick walls or see constellations. Kick Walls? Sounds good with constellations though
They do not think of life and or death
Or balance them on dark and light fulcrums.

I watch them, fur and flesh over bone and brain.  
I give them levers to pull, to see if they decide.

The levers move in silence.  This line could be spiced up a bit maybe a different verb than 'move'

Their futile bodies know the question;  
Their noble beings have no answer. 
Their lives are only chemical computers,  like the sound of 'chemical computers' 
Chaotic twitches of mortal muscle, Good line, I like 'Chaotic twitches'
Seeking validation for every bite.
They shake in self-awareness at the power of their hands.  I would shorten this line, maybe something like "Their hands shake in self-awareness." not sure if I like using 'self-awareness'   

In reflection they see their fur
Placed over skin that is not their own
Just before the glass breaks.  Not sure if i get this last line -  Is this some sort of glass wall in the maze? is this the climax of the experiment?

Additional Observations:
The first line compares the speaker compares themselves to these test rats, saying that they are happier.  The poem continues to describe the rat's experience, but I had a hard time connected it to the speaker, other than knowing that he is the observer.  I think this could be addressed with another stanza.  Overall, I like the determinism concept and some of the imagery evoked.


-Nick
 

[LukeSizemore]

To echo what everyone else has said, eliminate words. Thats the mistake I made, being far too emotionally connected to all of the words in my poem than I needed to be 
Brevity is the soul of wit, they say. So we must learn brevity, no matter how awkward it may feel.

[BW BRINE]

Hello,

I'll just point out a few things I was unclear about/ didn't necessarily like:

1. What is the significance of the levers being pulled in silence? That doesn't make sense to me. What are you really trying to say (it seems like a metaphor for something but for what I'm not entirely sure).

2. I really liked: "They shake in self-awareness at the power of their hands". It may be even more shocking if you were to replace "in" with "with" or "from"

3. Where does the glass come from? Is this a literal interpretation or yet another metaphor? In either case, it seems you should talk more about this; if you're ending with something as intense as glass shattering, I want to know what that glass is, where it came from, etc. If it's literal, it could be the glass through which you're observing them? If figurative, make some prior mention about maybe the fragility of their perceptions or prior existence, and this enlightenment has proverbially shattered their prior consciousness (assuming that's what you're trying to get at here).

Note: I may be reading into your poem too much. I like the theme, but it needs more work getting everything to flow together. You have some nice portions but there seems to be some disconnect. Overall, nice work.

-BW

[UselessBlueprint]

You're probably not reading into it too much.
1. There is significance to the fact that the levers move in silence. It should hopefully be read with the prior line still fresh in the mind, as it is supposed to say something about "if" these rats decide. Particularly, the idea is that the rats do pull on these levers, but that it is purely impulsive and does not require any conscious thought or decision making. There is no committee to consult, no advice to be given, and no question to be asked. The action stands alone, separated from the questions and definitions that surround it.

2. A very sound edit, but in my opinion it isn't enough of an impact yet to justify itself yet, especially considering I'm entirely satisfied with the "self-awareness" part of the line.

3. I guess I haven't spoke too much about what the glass is about. It isn't necessarily of a physical origin, nor is it purely metaphor. I hope that makes sense. In the drafting and editing process, it began as "mirror," then "window," and finally "glass." The reflection the rats see is not a literal reflection, but as someone had mentioned here (Erthona), it is "self-introspection." The rats are reflecting on their lives, their being, their existence, trying to find the ever-elusive "purpose" and "meaning." In this process, they see their fur (outward, physical tendencies) placed over skin that is not their own (inner, "spiritual" thoughts, the source of which is higher than the rats themselves). The image of two different reflections being transposed on each other doesn't actually lend itself well to a mirror, but more to a window or other transparent glass.

I also hope that by now it is clear that these rats are not actually rats. I would also hope that it is abundantly clear that the poem is focused on these "rats," not the speaker. While it is possible to examine the speaker's position in this, that is not the primary purpose of this piece.

With all of this in mind, feel free to continue with suggestions on how these things could be made clearer, especially knowing now what it looks like I'm saying and what I'm trying to say.

Thank you very much for the feedback BW.

[RiverNotch]

--Edit #2--
There are rats in cages and mazes that are happier than I am.
They do not kick walls or see constellations.
They do not think of life and death
Or balance them on dark and light fulcrums. Too many empty words. Easily,

There are rats in cages and mazes happier than I,
not kicking walls, not seeing constellations,
not thinking of life and death
and trying to balance them.... 

"dark and light" feels like an image that doesn't belong here, too, and "fulcrums" is way too technical for this poem's diction.

I watch them, fur and flesh over bone and brain.
I give them levers to pull, to see if they decide. This line is fair enough, although the space between it and the next feels superfluous -- the line before this, though, pulls the focus onto the speaker, in a way that is never really developed or enhanced.

The levers move in silence.

Their futile bodies know the question;
Their noble beings have no answer.
Their lives are only chemical computers,
Chaotic twitches of mortal muscle,
Seeking validation for every bite. I like these three lines -- very, er, noble. But the comma between "muscle" and "Seeking" is completely unnecessary.
They shake in self-awareness at the power of their hands. To me, there's no progression leading to this line: the rats start as rats, deciding blindly and sensually as rats do, and then, in a moment's passage, this vivid but disconnected anthropomorphizing. "Their lives are only chemical computers" -- as if this sense of self-awareness was merely chemicals computing (or at least the speaker has not offered an intelligent enough argument to convince me so). You might say (you have said) that the rats are merely symbolic of something, but for symbols like that to hold, they either have to be complete (that is, aside from any other stated modifiers, the rats have to be rats through and through -- nothing so silly as this wholly ideal sort of self-awareness) or their incompleteness has to be somehow directly (that is clearly and in-poem) acknowledged, which is of course never done here.

In reflection they see their fur
Placed over skin that is not their own
Just before the glass breaks. And so, everything falls apart. This could have been a neat statement on a sense of a spiritual falling apart, as I suspect you meant to say, but with the sudden break with reality on the paragraph-developing line, this poem suddenly turned into empty and disconnected navel-gazing, at least for me (and reading through some other comments here....). Ah well.