Father, Have I Sinned?

[crimsonqueen]

Here, upon a stranded altar, where long days of youth are spent
At first, a hair tousle, that proceeds a firm and impish grip
The pious servant demands that the sinner, of ten, repent

Lift up my heavy head, and press the cup to my waiting lip
We were saved by the blood, and kept by water; seal me in this
For heaven's sake, alone, my hushed mouth will take clandestine sip

How could salvation be odious? I'm sickened by its kiss
Still, even in the warmth of bed, or mother's breast, or prayer
I'll keep my covenant, and never claim Father is amiss

I realize this meter and scheme are a bit less common..I'm not sure if I've ever seen them combined. I wanted the poem to sound a bit disjointed. Usually my poems are very melodic/rhythmic. The fractured  feeling here was intentional.

[71degrees]

Here, upon a stranded altar, where long days of youth are spent
At first, a hair tousle, that proceeds a firm and impish grip
The pious servant demands that the sinner, of ten, repent

Lift up my heavy head, and press the cup to my waiting lip
We were saved by the blood, and kept by water; seal me in this
For heaven's sake, alone, my hushed mouth will take clandestine sip

How could salvation be odious? I'm sickened by its kiss
Still, even in the warmth of bed, or mother's breast, or prayer
I'll keep my covenant, and never claim Father is amiss

I realize this meter and scheme are a bit less common..I'm not sure if I've ever seen them combined. I wanted the poem to sound a bit disjointed. Usually my poems are very melodic/rhythmic. The fractured  feeling here was intentional.

This "fractured feeling" you are striving for is successful, if that is indeed your goal.  But you should really wait to see if anyone comments on it instead of warning us about it.

The poem has comma overuse which makes reading it hard.  Don't like the question in the title and then again in the poem b/c neither are addressed nor answered. I think the poem is about the un-realized promise of salvation by body and blood, but the poem's structure is preventing me from entering the poem's images.  

I like the ending, the intro of mother/Father (purposeful capitalization, I assume)...but coming in too late for me to recapture my interest which is lost in the maze of phrases set aside by the comma usage.  

The old guard use of first word capitalized lines also adds to the confusion / fractured feeling during the read.  

I love religious based poetry and themes if they are presented in a thoughtful structure that allows the reader to ask questions. You're doing all the asking.  Decide what the poem is about and present it earlier.  That would be my main advice.

[crimsonqueen]

Here, upon a stranded altar, where long days of youth are spent
At first, a hair tousle that proceeds a firm and impish grip
The pious servant demands that the sinner, of ten, repent

Lift up my heavy head and press the cup to my waiting lip
We were saved by the blood, and kept by water; seal me in this
For heaven's sake, alone, my hushed mouth will take clandestine sip

How could salvation be odious? I'm sickened by its kiss
Still, even in the warmth of bed, or mother's breast, or prayer
I'll keep my covenant, and never claim Father is amiss

I realize this meter and scheme are a bit less common..I'm not sure if I've ever seen them combined. I wanted the poem to sound a bit disjointed. Usually my poems are very melodic/rhythmic. The fractured  feeling here was intentional.

This "fractured feeling" you are striving for is successful, if that is indeed your goal.  But you should really wait to see if anyone comments on it instead of warning us about it.

The poem has comma overuse which makes reading it hard.  Don't like the question in the title and then again in the poem b/c neither are addressed nor answered. I think the poem is about the un-realized promise of salvation by body and blood, but the poem's structure is preventing me from entering the poem's images.  

I like the ending, the intro of mother/Father (purposeful capitalization, I assume)...but coming in too late for me to recapture my interest which is lost in the maze of phrases set aside by the comma usage.  

The old guard use of first word capitalized lines also adds to the confusion / fractured feeling during the read.  

I love religious based poetry and themes if they are presented in a thoughtful structure that allows the reader to ask questions. You're doing all the asking.  Decide what the poem is about and present it earlier.  That would be my main advice.

I can see two places where the comma could be removed. I removed both in this reply.

What fractures the poem the most is dactylic pentameter paired with terza rima. I wanted the challenge. I also thought it would be a good place to get out these particular thoughts.

The poem is about none of those things. The questions portray the questions in a child's mind under such circumstances. But there aren't too many posed, in my opinion. The title is tentative. The format was meant to reflect the cognitive dissonance associated with the subject. 

Thank you for your comment!!

[makeshift]

Here, upon a stranded altar, where long days of youth are spent
At first, a hair tousle, that proceeds a firm and impish grip
The pious servant demands that the sinner, of ten, repent The grammar/syntax of this first stanza feels a little awkward to me. I like the images in the first two lines. The stranded altar, as if the altar is a sea lost boat or something is nice. Then the presumed daintyness of the hair tousle contrast well against the firm and impish grip. Again, I just wished it went down smoother. I assume some of the stilted writing is to satisfy the meter, which i'm admittedly not very sensitive to. Something like this would be easier to read, though far from ideal, and you'll probably loath it (it ignores the meter business!), but...

Upon a stranded altar, long youthful days are spent.
A hair tousle proceeds a firm and impish grip.
The pious servant demands the sinner repent.


Lift up my heavy head, and press the cup to my waiting lip
We were saved by the blood, and kept by water; seal me in this
For heaven's sake, alone, my hushed mouth will take clandestine sip Never heard clandestine before, I had to look it up. I like that it makes me think of candy, especially in this context, but I think its saying the same thing as hushed? Maybe omit hushed?

How could salvation be odious? I'm sickened by its kiss
Still, even in the warmth of bed, or mother's breast, or prayer
I'll keep my covenant, and never claim Father is amiss Before this stanza I would have assumed that the narrator would have been resisting all of this. I like that we get in the narrators psyche here. The amiss/kiss rhyme works well I think. I tried to figure out why mother's breast was here, and I don't have a concrete answer but it does remind me of the narrators youth, and allows me to contrast whatever this salvation liquid is with breast milk.

I realize this meter and scheme are a bit less common..I'm not sure if I've ever seen them combined. I wanted the poem to sound a bit disjointed. Usually my poems are very melodic/rhythmic. The fractured  feeling here was intentional.

I wrote a nice critique of this one then accidentally refreshed my page and lost it, so I apologize if this  version is crude! This poem has a cult vibe to it, tainted youth idk. Sounds like something a spooky little girl would say in a horror flick. I do agree with 71, that you might get a more worthwhile critique if you don't put your disclaimer at the end. After a few readings I thought about how it could be metaphor for molestation, not that forcing some one to drink something isn't a non metaphorical molestation. My critique of the first stanza was that the writing felt stilted, and I think that's my biggest gripe with the poem as a whole. Idk what your process is but maybe it would be worthwhile writing this as simply and plain as possible then add the *poetic* flourishes later, if at all? Reading this I felt like I could feel the strain of you writing it, if that makes sense? Its was an evocative poem though, hope my 2 cents helps. and thnx for sharing.

[Achebe]

I would suggest changing the title to "Pater, Peccavi?"

[crimsonqueen]

Here, upon a stranded altar, where long days of youth are spent
At first, a hair tousle, that proceeds a firm and impish grip
The pious servant demands that the sinner, of ten, repent The grammar/syntax of this first stanza feels a little awkward to me. I like the images in the first two lines. The stranded altar, as if the altar is a sea lost boat or something is nice. Then the presumed daintyness of the hair tousle contrast well against the firm and impish grip. Again, I just wished it went down smoother. I assume some of the stilted writing is to satisfy the meter, which i'm admittedly not very sensitive to. Something like this would be easier to read, though far from ideal, and you'll probably loath it (it ignores the meter business!), but...

Upon a stranded altar, long youthful days are spent.
A hair tousle proceeds a firm and impish grip.
The pious servant demands the sinner repent.


Lift up my heavy head, and press the cup to my waiting lip
We were saved by the blood, and kept by water; seal me in this
For heaven's sake, alone, my hushed mouth will take clandestine sip Never heard clandestine before, I had to look it up. I like that it makes me think of candy, especially in this context, but I think its saying the same thing as hushed? Maybe omit hushed?

How could salvation be odious? I'm sickened by its kiss
Still, even in the warmth of bed, or mother's breast, or prayer
I'll keep my covenant, and never claim Father is amiss Before this stanza I would have assumed that the narrator would have been resisting all of this. I like that we get in the narrators psyche here. The amiss/kiss rhyme works well I think. I tried to figure out why mother's breast was here, and I don't have a concrete answer but it does remind me of the narrators youth, and allows me to contrast whatever this salvation liquid is with breast milk.

I realize this meter and scheme are a bit less common..I'm not sure if I've ever seen them combined. I wanted the poem to sound a bit disjointed. Usually my poems are very melodic/rhythmic. The fractured  feeling here was intentional.

I wrote a nice critique of this one then accidentally refreshed my page and lost it, so I apologize if this  version is crude! This poem has a cult vibe to it, tainted youth idk. Sounds like something a spooky little girl would say in a horror flick. I do agree with 71, that you might get a more worthwhile critique if you don't put your disclaimer at the end. After a few readings I thought about how it could be metaphor for molestation, not that forcing some one to drink something isn't a non metaphorical molestation. My critique of the first stanza was that the writing felt stilted, and I think that's my biggest gripe with the poem as a whole. Idk what your process is but maybe it would be worthwhile writing this as simply and plain as possible then add the *poetic* flourishes later, if at all? Reading this I felt like I could feel the strain of you writing it, if that makes sense? Its was an evocative poem though, hope my 2 cents helps. and thnx for sharing.

The stilted writing IS to satisfy the meter. Read a line in dactylic pentameter. It never sounds rhythmic like other meters. Stilted is usually the opposite of my problem. I've tried and failed to write the subject more directly. For your edits, that becomes free verse. I also don't feel it helps the flow. Also, "of ten" was very important. The SINNER is 10 but where do we see the proclamation of innocence? Not from the child. It highlights the hypocrisy.

Hushed satisfies the meter and, in my opinion, nails in the idea of silence. It's a narrative of both silence and secrecy.

I hope the salvation liquid should be obvious. The mother's breast is a place of safety. Just like bed and prayer. Even in these places, the secret is kept.

I personally feel every word is necessary. Here is a example of the second stanza if I wrote it in another meter and rhyme scheme

Lift my head, press the cup to my lip
I'm saved by blood and kept by water
Seal me in this clandestine, vile sip
So I may stay my Father's daughter

Also, to be CLEAR this is about a priest, not a parent.

[rowens]

It seems sexual, and cryptic. Maybe if it was longer, but now it feels like a fragment. You probably like it that way. It looks like a kind of chapter heading.

[71degrees]

Here, upon a stranded altar, where long days of youth are spent
At first, a hair tousle, that proceeds a firm and impish grip
The pious servant demands that the sinner, of ten, repent The grammar/syntax of this first stanza feels a little awkward to me. I like the images in the first two lines. The stranded altar, as if the altar is a sea lost boat or something is nice. Then the presumed daintyness of the hair tousle contrast well against the firm and impish grip. Again, I just wished it went down smoother. I assume some of the stilted writing is to satisfy the meter, which i'm admittedly not very sensitive to. Something like this would be easier to read, though far from ideal, and you'll probably loath it (it ignores the meter business!), but...

Upon a stranded altar, long youthful days are spent.
A hair tousle proceeds a firm and impish grip.
The pious servant demands the sinner repent.


Lift up my heavy head, and press the cup to my waiting lip
We were saved by the blood, and kept by water; seal me in this
For heaven's sake, alone, my hushed mouth will take clandestine sip Never heard clandestine before, I had to look it up. I like that it makes me think of candy, especially in this context, but I think its saying the same thing as hushed? Maybe omit hushed?

How could salvation be odious? I'm sickened by its kiss
Still, even in the warmth of bed, or mother's breast, or prayer
I'll keep my covenant, and never claim Father is amiss Before this stanza I would have assumed that the narrator would have been resisting all of this. I like that we get in the narrators psyche here. The amiss/kiss rhyme works well I think. I tried to figure out why mother's breast was here, and I don't have a concrete answer but it does remind me of the narrators youth, and allows me to contrast whatever this salvation liquid is with breast milk.

I realize this meter and scheme are a bit less common..I'm not sure if I've ever seen them combined. I wanted the poem to sound a bit disjointed. Usually my poems are very melodic/rhythmic. The fractured  feeling here was intentional.

I wrote a nice critique of this one then accidentally refreshed my page and lost it, so I apologize if this  version is crude! This poem has a cult vibe to it, tainted youth idk. Sounds like something a spooky little girl would say in a horror flick. I do agree with 71, that you might get a more worthwhile critique if you don't put your disclaimer at the end. After a few readings I thought about how it could be metaphor for molestation, not that forcing some one to drink something isn't a non metaphorical molestation. My critique of the first stanza was that the writing felt stilted, and I think that's my biggest gripe with the poem as a whole. Idk what your process is but maybe it would be worthwhile writing this as simply and plain as possible then add the *poetic* flourishes later, if at all? Reading this I felt like I could feel the strain of you writing it, if that makes sense? Its was an evocative poem though, hope my 2 cents helps. and thnx for sharing.

The stilted writing IS to satisfy the meter. Read a line in dactylic pentameter. It never sounds rhythmic like other meters. Stilted is usually the opposite of my problem. I've tried and failed to write the subject more directly. For your edits, that becomes free verse. I also don't feel it helps the flow. Also, "of ten" was very important. The SINNER is 10 but where do we see the proclamation of innocence? Not from the child. It highlights the hypocrisy.

Hushed satisfies the meter and, in my opinion, nails in the idea of silence. It's a narrative of both silence and secrecy.

I hope the salvation liquid should be obvious. The mother's breast is a place of safety. Just like bed and prayer. Even in these places, the secret is kept.

I personally feel every word is necessary. Here is a example of the second stanza if I wrote it in another meter and rhyme scheme

Lift my head, press the cup to my lip
I'm saved by blood and kept by water
Seal me in this clandestine, vile sip
So I may stay my Father's daughter

Also, to be CLEAR this is about a priest, not a parent.

All these suggestions you're refuting tells me you are not prepared to tear into this poem and address them. It may be crystal CLEAR to you (I hope so b/c you wrote it) but not to most of the folks who are trying to help you out. I understood the little girl aspect, I knew it was a priest by the capitalization of Father and the non-capitalization of mother. I'm a Catholic...I would do the same.

There are indeed some things in the poem that are clear...but salvation is a tricky business and what you are presenting about it is not. You are trying too hard with the adherence w/the meter scheme. It's not working. Or another way to look at it (based on several comments) is that it may be working too well. It's overwhelming the poem.

Everything that everyone has said and/or suggested is just that....suggestions. It remains your poem. Keep 'em coming...I like your style.

[crimsonqueen]

@71Degrees

That's not true, I actually really value the criticism. I rewrote a stanza to see how it would work with a different flow..clearly I'm listening. I appreciate it, I just respond to everything by counter point, even if I agree.

I understand what you're saying. The meter has a certain disjointed flow by nature..and it's paired with disjointed ideas. To me that reflected inner workings but I can see why it wouldn't make for the most pleasant read. Not that it would in any case.

To make it crystal clear:

Stranded altar = a godless church of hypocrisy. God has abandoned this church

The next line..contrast between innocent touch that turns sinister.

The next..contrast between the idea of an innocent as a sinner and someone perverse as pious.

The next line.. Cup = cock

The next line..the Christian ideals of the blood of Christ and baptism made parallel to semen

The rest should be clear, now. If you want to offer criticism to thread these ideas into a more cohesive narrative, I'd love to hear them. But I prefer to maintain the metaphors.

[Lizzie]

If you already think the poem is perfect and if you're going to continue to justify and explain every. little. thing. then you're not serious about editing your work and receiving feedback with anything resembling grace.

You're wasting everyone's time.

[crimsonqueen]

If you already think the poem is perfect and if you're going to continue to justify and explain every. little. thing. then you're not serious about editing your work and receiving feedback with anything resembling grace.

You're wasting everyone's time.

That's a bit unwarranted. It's called discourse. Someone makes a critique and I counter it by sharing my thought process..then they're welcome to point out the error in my thought process.

If I were to blindly accept criticism THEN this would be pointless. That said, their criticism has definitely been helpful so far..and as far as I can see you only really dropped by to speculate. Which is the true waste of everyone's time.

What's hilarious, too, is how multiple people have said I'm not prepared to accept criticism when I already posted a sample edit based on the criticism I received...y'all are lame.

[Leanne]

Hello crimsonqueen.  The biggest problem I have with this is your fallacious assumption that dactylic pentameter -- or indeed any measure of dactyls -- is stilted.  Quite the contrary -- any regular meter will have a consistent, unbroken and logical beat to it.  Additionally, any lines of poetry that use a variety of meters consistently will also sound consistent (to continue with dactyls, consider the elegiac couplets of Ovid and other classical poets). The stilted feel to this poem is because you've mixed your meters inconsistently.  I realise that scansion can be a little subjective and is not an exact science, but I fear that the meter you have in your head is not translating to the page very well.  This can easily be fixed by paying specific attention to the important syllables in a line, the ones you want stressed so they stand out, and working from there -- once the meter is fixed solidly in your head.  Also, it's worth noting that the classic dactyls used by the Greeks and Romans do not work especially well in English due to the tonal differences in the language, so it's best to work on a DUM diddy basis.  Dactyls are a good choice for the gravity of this subject matter, very sombre and powerful when used correctly.

Here, upon a stranded altar, where long days of youth are spent -- this line scans as trochaic to me: HERE u/PON a/ STRANDed/ALtar/WHERE long/DAYS of/ YOUTH are/ SPENT
At first, a hair tousle, that proceeds a firm and impish grip -- this line doesn't scan as regular at all, but definitely not dactylic.  I get: at FIRST/a HAIR/ TOUSle/ THAT PRO ceeds/ a FIRM/ and IMP/ish GRIP, so one dactyl the lot unless you break it up as amphibractic and even then it's not consistent.  Also, it should probably be "precedes".  
The pious servant demands that the sinner, of ten, repent -- and this line: the PIous/ SERVant de/MANDS that the/SINNER of ten/rePENT -- so this one's closest to dactylic pentameter but still not quite right.

Lift up my heavy head, and press the cup to my waiting lip 
We were saved by the blood, and kept by water; seal me in this
For heaven's sake, alone, my hushed mouth will take clandestine sip -- I'll abandon scansion at this point and stick to mild critique, as you have requested.  In this stanza, you do not need "up" after lift -- if it's a choice for meter, it's best to make another choice as it stands out as a filler and meter should not be the driving force in the poem.  You do need an article before "clandestine" purely because of the nature of the rest of your language -- leaving out "a" here draws attention to it as grammatically inconsistent.

How could salvation be odious? I'm sickened by its kiss -- I think the question weakens the concept somewhat.  A statement would have greater power. 
Still, even in the warmth of bed, or mother's breast, or prayer
I'll keep my covenant, and never claim Father is amiss -- amiss is an odd choice.  It's not incorrect, per se, but it more often refers to an action than a person, so the usage here does stand out. It's your choice, however.  

[crimsonqueen]

Hello crimsonqueen.  The biggest problem I have with this is your fallacious assumption that dactylic pentameter -- or indeed any measure of dactyls -- is stilted.  Quite the contrary -- any regular meter will have a consistent, unbroken and logical beat to it.  Additionally, any lines of poetry that use a variety of meters consistently will also sound consistent (to continue with dactyls, consider the elegiac couplets of Ovid and other classical poets). The stilted feel to this poem is because you've mixed your meters inconsistently.  I realise that scansion can be a little subjective and is not an exact science, but I fear that the meter you have in your head is not translating to the page very well.  This can easily be fixed by paying specific attention to the important syllables in a line, the ones you want stressed so they stand out, and working from there -- once the meter is fixed solidly in your head.  Also, it's worth noting that the classic dactyls used by the Greeks and Romans do not work especially well in English due to the tonal differences in the language, so it's best to work on a DUM diddy basis.  Dactyls are a good choice for the gravity of this subject matter, very sombre and powerful when used correctly.

Here, upon a stranded altar, where long days of youth are spent -- this line scans as trochaic to me: HERE u/PON a/ STRANDed/ALtar/WHERE long/DAYS of/ YOUTH are/ SPENT
At first, a hair tousle, that proceeds a firm and impish grip -- this line doesn't scan as regular at all, but definitely not dactylic.  I get: at FIRST/a HAIR/ TOUSle/ THAT PRO ceeds/ a FIRM/ and IMP/ish GRIP, so one dactyl the lot unless you break it up as amphibractic and even then it's not consistent.  Also, it should probably be "precedes".  
The pious servant demands that the sinner, of ten, repent -- and this line: the PIous/ SERVant de/MANDS that the/SINNER of ten/rePENT -- so this one's closest to dactylic pentameter but still not quite right.

Lift up my heavy head, and press the cup to my waiting lip 
We were saved by the blood, and kept by water; seal me in this
For heaven's sake, alone, my hushed mouth will take clandestine sip -- I'll abandon scansion at this point and stick to mild critique, as you have requested.  In this stanza, you do not need "up" after lift -- if it's a choice for meter, it's best to make another choice as it stands out as a filler and meter should not be the driving force in the poem.  You do need an article before "clandestine" purely because of the nature of the rest of your language -- leaving out "a" here draws attention to it as grammatically inconsistent.

How could salvation be odious? I'm sickened by its kiss -- I think the question weakens the concept somewhat.  A statement would have greater power. 
Still, even in the warmth of bed, or mother's breast, or prayer
I'll keep my covenant, and never claim Father is amiss -- amiss is an odd choice.  It's not incorrect, per se, but it more often refers to an action than a person, so the usage here does stand out. It's your choice, however.  

This is very helpful! This was exactly what I was looking for..this format is much trickier to work with than, say, iambs.

[Achebe]

Must say - a gold standard crit. This is exactly how I'd have liked to crit this piece, but I couldn't think of anything more sophisticated than 'it doesn't sound right in my head'

[Leanne]

Re-reading, you might actually be best going with trochees throughout -- a kind of Hiawatha rhythm might work very well here. The first line sets it up for you.

[Achebe]

Here, upon a stranded altar, where long days of youth are spent ....incomplete sentence. Also, 'long days of youth' is rather flowery (pardon the pun).
At first, a hair tousle, that proceeds a firm and impish grip ...'shouldn't it be 'precedes' or 'proceeds to a..'' An imp is a mischievous goblin, but you are after something more diabolical
The pious servant demands that the sinner, of ten, repent [i].' HERE / at / the'...the line starts have inconsistent stress patterns (that's how I'd put it....trochee or spondees or whatever)[/i]

Lift up my heavy head, and press the cup to my waiting lip [i][i]'The change in narration from third to first person bothered me initially, but I can live with it. Although it's the opposite of a cup, really. A spout maybe?[/i][/i]
We were saved by the blood, and kept by water; seal me in this this is a nice line
For heaven's sake, alone, my hushed mouth will take clandestine sip

How could salvation be odious? I'm sickened by its kiss
Still, even in the warmth of bed, or mother's breast, or prayer
I'll keep my covenant, and never claim Father is amiss I'm left wondering if it might make sense to have S1 from the third person POV, S2 from that of the priest and S3 from the boy's, in 3 different voices. 

I realize this meter and scheme are a bit less common..I'm not sure if I've ever seen them combined. I wanted the poem to sound a bit disjointed. Usually my poems are very melodic/rhythmic. The fractured  feeling here was intentional.

[71degrees]

@71Degrees

That's not true, I actually really value the criticism. I rewrote a stanza to see how it would work with a different flow..clearly I'm listening. I appreciate it, I just respond to everything by counter point, even if I agree.

I understand what you're saying. The meter has a certain disjointed flow by nature..and it's paired with disjointed ideas. To me that reflected inner workings but I can see why it wouldn't make for the most pleasant read. Not that it would in any case.

To make it crystal clear:

Stranded altar = a godless church of hypocrisy. God has abandoned this church

The next line..contrast between innocent touch that turns sinister.

The next..contrast between the idea of an innocent as a sinner and someone perverse as pious.

The next line.. Cup = cock

The next line..the Christian ideals of the blood of Christ and baptism made parallel to semen

The rest should be clear, now. If you want to offer criticism to thread these ideas into a more cohesive narrative, I'd love to hear them. But I prefer to maintain the metaphors.

What's not true? Not following you....

And nothing is "crystal clear" if it has to be pointed out, especially disjointed ideas. A Cup is a cock? What? The girl is ten. If the now crystal clear images of priest abuse / semen / and now you're telling me baptism (??? kept by the water ???) are being presented in this poem, I missed them and apologize for my poetical ineptness to your presentation....I'm still struggling w/the salvation part.

It's still your poem. Whether or not certain posters "y'all are lame" is debatable. I'm just offering my threecents worth.

Write on.