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 03-26-2017, 11:33 PM 
		What inclines
What makes the brimming Spring
brace the exposed
So immaculate, so chaste 
as though as virginal 
But if a gaze is that of a masculine power 
Would you rather I came bare or covered?
 
The aim is what you’re always bothered with
 
That what is watching  
is always wondering what lies under it all 
To unruin the already ruined, 
or stretch out my frame 
To rehabilitate, renovate, or extend
 
If you weigh what’s mine and what it counters 
How can I please feel bothered
 
Sat inside the shared-house 
Roaring walls of desire cry out 
for more time, rewiring, 
and something to buy her 
Like a capricious child 
acute in acquiring 
the preciousness of cute 
They eye her
 
The quiet space seemed inviting 
The space between the pilot of the vessel 
and the smileless wrestle  
of fear and courage racing each other  
till the winner meets the sighting of the reflection 
Nevertheless I’m trying
 
So I bite on some dried fruit 
Soya milk 
And guess I’m about to go with it 
The whole of my ensemble  
could do with another note in it 
A little change of rote 
Not estranged – 
still resembling the strength that I came here with
 
The lines that I draw 
are not there to shame the lands that they claim 
Rather rhyme with them, 
with the aim of acclaiming the finery 
of the apricots and pines 
aligned so divinely 
within the arches of my eyebrows
 
The lines that I draw 
Rhyme with them
 
Marking vows that reverberate inside humble shrines 
whose walls are not man-built 
but not quite yet gilded either 
Still need to feel the resonant power 
of a self-love bible 
and meet the preacher 
that will treasure the space they hold 
for what it is and is not
 
I take the tweezers  
and sign a defining affirmation: 
This sand 
the land, and the nation, is mine 
And it’s fine to do whatever I favour 
For the hand brings bliss 
And it’s what I’ve been missing 
Can you hear the arriving waxwings singing? 
The ringing in your ears 
heralding the reminder 
this budding delivery 
is an attribute of my own fingertips 
Shipping from the same residence 
Equipped with the same energy 
Merging in awe 
Married
 
llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll >  < llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll
 
Oookay, guys;
 
- this is quite a rough diamond I am trying to polish here for my uni arts project. 
It is supposed to be voice recorded (by me, the author) and used as a narration for a short video I am doing:  
The piece is attempting to addressing people who tend to examine and speculate on one's beauty standards and modes of expression; themes being femininity and self-identification / presentation, which will involve shots of me dressing up in the morning, and some cross-edits with nature motifs. 
Never been into much poetry, so feel free to bring out your chisels and hammers, and dig some sense into me as to how this is going, because I do want to improve my craft! 
Title suggestions are very welcome as well.
 
Cheers
	 
		
	 
	
	
	
		
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		Please take my critique with a grain of salt, while I do concern myself with modes of expression and self-identification I don't know much about femininity.  how long is the video? Do you speak throughout or give breaks, do the breaks match up with breaks in your poem, speak slow or fast?  The best way to critique something like this is to have the video with it... 
Since you want a critique without the video, my first suggestion is to write clearly with proper punctuation, line breaks are helpful for pauses but not for clarity.
 
Also, with poetry, often less is more, some phrases in here seem only for length, and some of your points or views could be stronger. Your lucky that your audience will also have the visuals to distract them
  (03-26-2017, 11:33 PM)almonds Wrote:  What inclines good question, maybe a dash for a second thoughtWhat makes the brimming Spring
 brace the exposed
 So immaculate, so chaste is spring immaculate or the exposed?
 as though as virginal
 But if a gaze is that of a masculine power
 Would you rather I came bare or covered? Because your addressing femininity I assume it's natural to consider what a masculine power Would think? Or would you rather talk about how a woman might consider how a feminine peer might view her?  Speaking of make-up, and from my own perspective, it seems women care more about it than men as a whole overall.  I personally find make up gross and don't want to look at it. Not saying a face can't be beautiful with make-up, I think make up is just distracting more than anything... war paint
 
 
 The aim is what you’re always bothered with your aim in dressing is what would a masculine power be bothered by? Or you are always bothered by the aims of your dressing?
 
 That what is watching
 is always wondering what lies under it all all - not just clothes, measuring a person
 To unruin the already ruined, too broken here for sentence structure.  Who's judging now what is ruined or who will fix what
 or stretch out my frame
 To rehabilitate, renovate, or extend other examples of unruining
 
 If you weigh what’s mine and what it counters I cannot grasp what counters what's yours since I'm not sure the yours of which you speak, the 'all' from before?
 How can I please feel bothered I'd take out please or adjust the punctuation, because please can also be an appropriate verb for content
 
 
 Sat inside the shared-house shared-house to me is your mind
 Roaring walls of desire cry out
 for more time, rewiring,
 and something to buy her introducing a new character or buy for herself, buy her more time.
 Like a capricious child
 acute in acquiring
 the preciousness of cute cuteness is precious yes? I first read precious as precocious which I learned from Mary Poppins in regards to children but capricious is a better word. How about, 'acute in acquiring cuteness'
 They eye her ambiguous pronoun, they must be masculine? The feeling of paranoia every woman must feel about leering eyes and cat calls
 
 The quiet space seemed inviting
 The space between the pilot of the vessel good rhyme wrestle vessel,
 and the smileless wrestle
 of fear and courage racing each other
 till the winner meets the sighting of the reflection meet the sight or meet the reflection?
 Nevertheless I’m trying the run-on is hard to follow
 
 So I bite on some dried fruit
 Soya milk
 And guess I’m about to go with it food because you mentioned earlier -stretch out my frame-
 The whole of my ensemble
 could do with another note in it
 A little change of rote
 Not estranged –
 still resembling the strength that I came here with came to this dress ensemble decision? Came to this shared-house?
 
 The lines that I draw
 are not there to shame the lands that they claim intent on clowning? My wife has mastered her eyebrow lines
 Rather rhyme with them,
 with the aim of acclaiming the finery
 of the apricots and pines evergreen and fruit? The pines on your face take away the finery in this image
 aligned so divinely
 within the arches of my eyebrows
 
 The lines that I draw
 Rhyme with them with so little rhyme throughout here I don't think you should repeat this here. Doesn't help
 
 Marking vows that reverberate inside humble shrines
 whose walls are not man-built
 but not quite yet gilded either
 Still need to feel the resonant power
 of a self-love bible
 and meet the preacher
 that will treasure the space they hold
 for what it is and is not this is my favorite stanza but punctuation for clarity would help, I still need
 
 I take the tweezers
 and sign a defining affirmation: sign with tweezers, sign by plucking?
 This sand is the sand the dry self-view
 the land, and the nation, is mine just go with the world, nation makes this political when it doesn't need to be
 And it’s fine to do whatever I favour
 For the hand brings bliss bliss from courage winning the race to the reflection?
 And it’s what I’ve been missing the bliss has been missing?
 Can you hear the arriving waxwings singing? I don't know what a waxwing is, local bird?
 The ringing in your ears
 heralding the reminder
 this budding delivery
 is an attribute of my own fingertips woman Empowerment here
 Shipping from the same residence
 Equipped with the same energy the same residence and energy as what, the self before the image
 Merging in awe
 Married I would drop married, opens up too many interpretations to be left at the end here, brings me a little doubt to all I read before.
 
 Hope this helps, good luck on your project
 
 
 
 
 
 llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll >
  < llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll 
 Oookay, guys;
 
 - this is quite a rough diamond I am trying to polish here for my uni arts project.
 It is supposed to be voice recorded (by me, the author) and used as a narration for a short video I am doing:
 The piece is attempting to addressing people who tend to examine and speculate on one's beauty standards and modes of expression; themes being femininity and self-identification / presentation, which will involve shots of me dressing up in the morning, and some cross-edits with nature motifs.
 Never been into much poetry, so feel free to bring out your chisels and hammers, and dig some sense into me as to how this is going, because I do want to improve my craft!
 Title suggestions are very welcome as well.
 
 Cheers
Peanut butter honey banana sandwiches
 
		
	 
	
	
	
		
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		 (03-26-2017, 11:33 PM)almonds Wrote:  What inclines This beginning makes me think you're about to impose a riddle. Are you riddling your audience?I recommend looking up what metaphors are and how they are used, then what imagery is and how it's used. The usage of metaphors and imagery seems sloppy.  After a little studying, you'll have a better understanding of your own work. Everything interwoven here needs stronger connection. The stronger the connection of the words, the stronger the connection between you and your lover will be conveyed. The more solid your ideas are, the less abstract this work will be-- spoken or read.What makes the brimming Spring I also think each line serves as a pause or breath, so ending with Spring, you may want to reconsider how the next line will affect us after the pause.
 brace the exposed That being said, is "brace" a verb you want to use? Or do you want to eliminate it, and leave this part ambiguous and two-worded? "... brimming Spring--- the exposed?"
 So immaculate, so chaste
 as though as virginal Spoken aloud, I think this will sound confusing. It's muddied up by the overuse of the word "as". I would recommend putting "virginal" after "chaste" to resolve the previous line. "So immaculate, so chaste, virginal".
 But if a gaze is that of a masculine power Don't be too artsy-fartsy. Compelling language is often simple, and it strikes us through its ability to be clearly understood.
 Would you rather I came bare or covered? Nice sexual innuendo.
 
 <----There's a lot of ominous space here. Is this a silent part of the film?--
 The aim is what you’re always bothered with
 I don't really understand what this is supposed to mean.
 That what is watching
 is always wondering what lies under it all
 To unruin the already ruined, Making up words is acceptable, but I don't think "unruin" exists in dictionaries.
 or stretch out my frame
 To rehabilitate, renovate, or extend Now you're teaching us carpentry skills.
 
 If you weigh what’s mine and what it counters
 How can I please feel bothered I'm going to reiterate simplicity. Over-compensation dilutes clear points. I think "please" can be removed.
 
 Now that we've reached the second area of ominous space, I'm feeling confused. Everyone is told not to be abstract. Abstraction is a tool best left for masters of poetic craft. So, I would recommend sitting down to think about what this last section was supposed to mean. Do you have any clear ideas, or are you throwing words out of an abstract place in your mind? If you yourself don't know, then assume your audience will be just as puzzled. The section above could benefit from concise, blunt statements.
 
 Sat inside the shared-house
 Roaring walls of desire cry out I like the innuendo here. Walls of her you-know-what?
 for more time, rewiring, I think you're a carpenter by trade.
 and something to buy her
 Like a capricious child
 acute in acquiring
 the preciousness of cute These lines make sense, but the language used is confusing. How can you more clearly dictate what you say in fewer lines? Maybe: "A cute, precious child// capricious.." There are so many options.
 They eye her How so? This line is suggesting so much, and I wonder what you mean here.
 
 The quiet space seemed inviting
 The space between the pilot of the vessel With less words, it reads: "... space between pilot and vessel". Do you like that?
 and the smileless wrestle I think you invented a word again.
 of fear and courage racing each other
 till the winner meets the sighting of the reflection
 Nevertheless I’m trying I really like how direct these last three lines are. I think a comma will suffice after "Nevertheless".
 
 So I bite on some dried fruit This metaphor could be more powerful if you'd previously mentioned fruit. Try using more nectar metaphors throughout, then carry it on.
 Soya milk "Soya milk" can easily rest as the resolve for the last line, so a line break here isn't necessary.
 And guess I’m about to go with it
 The whole of my ensemble
 could do with another note in it
 A little change of rote
 Not estranged – Nice consonance, nice internal rhyme. These five lines are good, but can be reduced to four or three.
 still resembling the strength that I came here with
 
 The lines that I draw At this point, I feel like I've nit-picked so much of your work. There is some consistency in everything I've noted, so I will continue with it.
 are not there to shame the lands that they claim The drawn lines and claimed land seem odd, and have now appeared from nowhere. Like I said before about the fruit: Metaphors, symbols, etc., give your work absolute strength when they are carried through the entire piece. They evolve, and are permeable. Go back to the beginning-- apply them through permutation.
 Rather rhyme with them,
 with the aim of acclaiming the finery
 of the apricots and pines See, you did it here.
 aligned so divinely
 within the arches of my eyebrows
 
 The lines that I draw
 Rhyme with them Here's a good spot-- the lines, the rhymes, and whatever "them" is, will be so powerful when you apply similar metaphors from the beginning to this provocative point.
 
 Marking vows that reverberate inside humble shrines Nice!
 whose walls are not man-built They're her walls, right?
 but not quite yet gilded either
 Still need to feel the resonant power
 of a self-love bible As in, self-help book equated to the power of spirituality?
 and meet the preacher
 that will treasure the space they hold
 for what it is and is not Nice integration of the priest.
 
 I take the tweezers
 and sign a defining affirmation: Sweet, more permutations.
 This sand These two words don't harbor the power two words alone deserve.
 the land, and the nation, is mine
 And it’s fine to do whatever I favour
 For the hand brings bliss
 And it’s what I’ve been missing
 Can you hear the arriving waxwings singing?
 The ringing in your ears Like wedding chimes, church bells, nice.
 heralding the reminder
 this budding delivery
 is an attribute of my own fingertips
 Shipping from the same residence
 Equipped with the same energy
 Merging in awe
 Married
 
		
	 
	
	
	
		
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		 (03-27-2017, 11:52 PM)CRNDLSM Wrote:  How long is the video? ~ 5 - 7 min
 CRNDLSM Wrote:Do you speak throughout or give breaks? I give varied breaks where I feel a pause after a stanza or a line would seal an impact and give time for reflection. 
 CRNDLSM Wrote:Do the breaks match up with breaks in your poem? Yes; I've placed the breaks according to where and how big the pauses are, whilst speaking.
 CRNDLSM Wrote:Speak slow or fast? Medium tempo, with possible light switches.  
 
I tried to write as clearly as I could, and give punctuation that I considered appropriate, to my level of understanding. Some of the longer sentences I have split into two or more lines, but I have indicated where a sentence is being continued and where a new one starts, by the use of lower and upper case letters. I don't use much of end punctuation, because I don't feel it's needed. Most poetry lines to me end 'floating in the air', as if they are let go in the ether, and nothing asks to be there to obstruct their natural flow / way out. You just wait for another one to follow... Some of the lines indeed drop to the floor with a distinguishable bounce.  
I felt the line breaks are needed because that's where I usually would pause, and did not want you to read the piece as a bulky whole of text.
 CRNDLSM Wrote: Also, with poetry, often less is more, some phrases in here seem only for length, Could you please indicate for me, which lines in particular seem only for length?
 CRNDLSM Wrote:and some of your points or views could be stronger. Could you please point which ones could those be?
  (03-26-2017, 11:33 PM)almonds Wrote:  What inclines good question, maybe a dash for a second thoughtWhat makes the brimming Spring
 brace the exposed
 So immaculate, so chaste is spring immaculate or the exposed?
 as though as virginal
 Actually, the first two lines are like dreamy metaphors introducing the curiosity that drives the piece. A way of questioning Why one adorns them self. 
During this introductory voice over the video is supposed to show me getting up in my bed, about to get ready... 
I head to the mirror to have a first look at my bare image. 
I look at my face and see it as an artist sees a blank canvas; immaculate, untouched, and hence there's the need to apply some creativity, as the Spring would, to bare, exposed land...
  
  (03-26-2017, 11:33 PM)almonds Wrote:  But if a gaze is that of a masculine powerWould you rather I came bare or covered? Because your addressing femininity I assume it's natural to consider what a masculine power Would think? Or would you rather talk about how a woman might consider how a feminine peer might view her?  Speaking of make-up, and from my own perspective, it seems women care more about it than men as a whole overall.  I personally find make up gross and don't want to look at it. Not saying a face can't be beautiful with make-up, I think make up is just distracting more than anything... war paint
 Do you feel I should entertain a woman's perspective of the question? 
Perhaps; though, I figured, the piece is also addressing some romantic insecurities; because of this and my current orientation, I am more drawn toward a masculine spectator.  
Your point of view on make up is quite intriguing, and could as well contribute to the cause of this piece; 
First time hearing the label 'war paint' in reference to make-up. 
  (03-26-2017, 11:33 PM)almonds Wrote:  The aim is what you’re always bothered with your aim in dressing is what would a masculine power be bothered by? Or you are always bothered by the aims of your dressing? How come I've made it so complicated     
It's basically saying, The aim (of what I'm doing to my image) is what you (the male spectator) are always bothered with. 'Why do you do this' etc  
For example, if I made an appearance or 'came' to visit someone, they would wonder 'Why is she dressed like this / wearing this make-up'...
  (03-26-2017, 11:33 PM)almonds Wrote:  That what is watching Ahemis always wondering what lies under it all all - not just clothes, measuring a person
 To unruin the already ruined, too broken here for sentence structure.  Who's judging now what is ruined or who will fix what
 or stretch out my frame
 To rehabilitate, renovate, or extend other examples of unruining
 , Should all lines in a poem follow rules of sentence structure?     
The latter is an extension of the first line; these are some clues that could be going through one's mind as to Why I am doing this.
  (03-26-2017, 11:33 PM)almonds Wrote:  If you weigh what’s mine and what it counters I cannot grasp what counters what's yours since I'm not sure the yours of which you speak, the 'all' from before? The 'what is (and is not) mine' are the elements of my image, which could potentially be there to counter something... 
  (03-26-2017, 11:33 PM)almonds Wrote:  How can I please feel botheredThis I would like to keep fairly ambiguous, but it's basically my response to your speculations. 
Might remove the 'please'; thank you.
However I added it there to make the conclusion sound gentler, because my first go was 'How can I ever bother with you', but figured it would be a bit too tense.  (03-26-2017, 11:33 PM)almonds Wrote:  Sat inside the shared-house shared-house to me is your mind Great interpretation!
  (03-26-2017, 11:33 PM)almonds Wrote:  Roaring walls of desire cry outfor more time, rewiring,
 and something to buy her introducing a new character or buy for herself, buy her more time.
 Speaking of myself in third person.
  (03-26-2017, 11:33 PM)almonds Wrote:  Sat inside the shared-houseRoaring walls of desire cry out
 for more time, rewiring,
 and something to buy her
 Like a capricious child
 acute in acquiring
 the preciousness of cute cuteness is precious yes? I first read precious as precocious which I learned from Mary Poppins in regards to children but capricious is a better word. How about, 'acute in acquiring cuteness'
 
I'm not sure if 'cuteness' would sound fit as an ending.
  
  (03-26-2017, 11:33 PM)almonds Wrote:  The quiet space seemed invitingThe space between the pilot of the vessel good rhyme wrestle vessel,
 and the smileless wrestle
 of fear and courage racing each other
 till the winner meets the sighting of the reflection meet the sight or meet the reflection?
 Could be that I'm misusing English somehow, but to me 'sighting of the reflection' is fairly understandable; I guess I was going for something ending with 'ing' before the word 'reflection' .. as the words 'sight' and 'reflection' came up in my mind, and they are relatable, but wouldn't seem to fit the way they are, so I was thinking,'sight of the reflection';  'sighting of the reflection'
  (03-26-2017, 11:33 PM)almonds Wrote:  So I bite on some dried fruitSoya milk
 And guess I’m about to go with it food because you mentioned earlier -stretch out my frame-
 Can I ask what makes you come up with such association? 
- Food and Stretching out my frame 
Interesting. 
These are actually some random vegan snacks to promote my awesome diet (yay), and make the reflective story telling more casual..
  (03-26-2017, 11:33 PM)almonds Wrote:  The whole of my ensemble could do with another note in it
 A little change of rote
 Not estranged –
 still resembling the strength that I came here with came to this dress ensemble decision? Came to this shared-house?
 No; the shared house is the place I am currently living in as a student, for the sake of some bare authenticity      
'Came here' as in, came into this word. It is a reference to the idiom, being a perfect God's creation, and an embodiment of beauty, strength and creativity. 
So even if I alter my image, the embodiment is still there. And should be there in the first place.
  (03-26-2017, 11:33 PM)almonds Wrote:  The lines that I draware not there to shame the lands that they claim intent on clowning? My wife has mastered her eyebrow lines
 Why intent on clowning?  
This was derived from the thinking that whatever you use to overlay / mask, is in some way a dismissal to what it covers, in terms of applying make-up. 
So this wouldn't be the case.
  (03-26-2017, 11:33 PM)almonds Wrote:  Rather rhyme with them,with the aim of acclaiming the finery
 of the apricots and pines evergreen and fruit? The pines on your face take away the finery in this image
 aligned so divinely
 within the arches of my eyebrows
 That's a fair opinion, makes me think... 
Though I wanted to create a little contrast, because to me not every single element in my portrait is considered fine, however as a whole, the image is.
  (03-26-2017, 11:33 PM)almonds Wrote:  The lines that I drawRhyme with them with so little rhyme throughout here I don't think you should repeat this here. Doesn't help
 What do you mean, so little rhyme throughout here? Through out the poem so far, or the last stanza, or?
  (03-26-2017, 11:33 PM)almonds Wrote:  This sand is the sand the dry self-view Another interesting interpretation.  
How does a dry self view come across here?
  (03-26-2017, 11:33 PM)almonds Wrote:  the land, and the nation, is mine just go with the world, nation makes this political when it doesn't need to be
And it’s fine to do whatever I favour
Interesting point. I incorporated 'nation', because I wanted to draw attention also to my ethnic traits, as another component of my image.  (03-26-2017, 11:33 PM)almonds Wrote:  For the hand brings bliss bliss from courage winning the race to the reflection? Nope; bliss from allowing my creativity, and adorning myself. 
  (03-26-2017, 11:33 PM)almonds Wrote:  Merging in aweMarried I would drop married, opens up too many interpretations to be left at the end here, brings me a little doubt to all I read before.
 I just thought it would sound nice there... And signifies unity and engagement with your whole creation. 
How does it bring you doubt to what you've read? 
However, what about:
 Quote:Being more.  (03-26-2017, 11:33 PM)almonds Wrote:  Hope this helps, good luck on your projectThank you, Thank you, Thank you, Sir
for your insightful feedback and engaging thoughts. 
>  < >  < >  < 
Learning quite a lot from this.
	 
		
	 
	
	
	
		
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		 (03-29-2017, 03:55 AM)burrealist Wrote:  What inclines This beginning makes me think you're about to impose a riddle. Are you riddling your audience? > The first two lines are like dreamy metaphors introducing the curiosity that drives the piece. A way of questioning Why one adorns them self. 
From then on, you could say, I'm trying to solve the riddle.
  (03-29-2017, 03:55 AM)burrealist Wrote:  What makes the brimming Spring I also think each line serves as a pause or breath, so ending with Spring, you may want to reconsider how the next line will affect us after the pause.brace the exposed That being said, is "brace" a verb you want to use? Or do you want to eliminate it, and leave this part ambiguous and two-worded? "... brimming Spring--- the exposed?" It's actually meant to be one line 'What makes the brimming Spring brace the exposed'; I split it into two to see what would happen.. But now that you point out the pause, I am thinking I should keep it as a single line.  
  (03-29-2017, 03:55 AM)burrealist Wrote:  So immaculate, so chaste as though as virginal Spoken aloud, I think this will sound confusing. It's muddied up by the overuse of the word "as". I would recommend putting "virginal" after "chaste" to resolve the previous line. "So immaculate, so chaste, virginal".
 Oh, thank you for pointing this out; I was quite sure and felt the second 'as' was grammatically needed, but now I see the conjunction doesn't actually work that way. 
  (03-29-2017, 03:55 AM)burrealist Wrote:  But if a gaze is that of a masculine power Don't be too artsy-fartsy. Compelling language is often simple, and it strikes us through its ability to be clearly understood. I see where you are coming from; but can I possibly leave a line or two in a poem, being 'artsy-fartsy'? 
It shouldn't be that challenging to understand.  
I happen to think it makes the stanza a bit more edgy, but you are welcome to add any suggestions for rephrasing. 
  (03-29-2017, 03:55 AM)burrealist Wrote:  Would you rather I came bare or covered? Nice sexual innuendo.  Thank you for your interpretation.
  (03-29-2017, 03:55 AM)burrealist Wrote:                                                                        <----There's a lot of ominous space here. Is this a silent part of the film?-- Yes.
  (03-29-2017, 03:55 AM)burrealist Wrote:  The aim is what you’re always bothered with I don't really understand what this is supposed to mean.
 More pauses.
>It's basically saying, The aim (of what I'm doing to my image) is what you (the male spectator) are always bothered with. 'Why do you do this' etc 
>For example, if I made an appearance or 'came' to visit someone, they would wonder 'Why is she dressed like this / wearing this make-up'...  (03-29-2017, 03:55 AM)burrealist Wrote:  That what is watching  is always wondering what lies under it all
 To unruin the already ruined, Making up words is acceptable, but I don't think "unruin" exists in dictionaries.
 or stretch out my frame
 Thank you for your thoughts. However I think I will allow it to stay there, honouring the place of invention it comes from. 
Seen quite a few poems doing this.
  (03-29-2017, 03:55 AM)burrealist Wrote:  To rehabilitate, renovate, or extend Now you're teaching us carpentry skills.Hehe , perhaps.
  (03-29-2017, 03:55 AM)burrealist Wrote:  If you weigh what’s mine and what it counters How can I please feel bothered I'm going to reiterate simplicity. Over-compensation dilutes clear points. I think "please" can be removed.
 I think I am at the stage of poetry writing where communicating clear points in simplicity doesn't come that naturally yet, as I am still trying to figure myself out. And I guess this is a kind of opportunity that allows the audience do the same.
  (03-29-2017, 03:55 AM)burrealist Wrote:  Now that we've reached the second area of ominous space, I'm feeling confused. Everyone is told not to be abstract. Abstraction is a tool best left for masters of poetic craft. So, I would recommend sitting down to think about what this last section was supposed to mean. Do you have any clear ideas, or are you throwing words out of an abstract place in your mind? If you yourself don't know, then assume your audience will be just as puzzled. The section above could benefit from concise, blunt statements. 
Thank you, I'll take this into consideration.  
> I give varied breaks where I feel a pause after a stanza or a line would seal an impact and give time for reflection.  (03-29-2017, 03:55 AM)burrealist Wrote:  Sat inside the shared-houseRoaring walls of desire cry out I like the innuendo here. Walls of her you-know-what?
 
 
Your dimension of interpretation       (03-29-2017, 03:55 AM)burrealist Wrote:  for more time, rewiring, I think you're a carpenter by trade. 
My selection of words just happen to fall into that category.  
If I'm incorporating spaces (shared house, shrines..) in my imagery, might they not as well fit there?
  (03-29-2017, 03:55 AM)burrealist Wrote:  and something to buy herLike a capricious child
 acute in acquiring
 the preciousness of cute These lines make sense, but the language used is confusing. How can you more clearly dictate what you say in fewer lines? Maybe: "A cute, precious child// capricious.." There are so many options.
 
Will think about this.
  (03-29-2017, 03:55 AM)burrealist Wrote:  They eye her How so? This line is suggesting so much, and I wonder what you mean here. I appreciate you questioning this. 
The previous critic got it very close.
 CRNDLSM Wrote:They eye her ambiguous pronoun, they must be masculine? The feeling of paranoia every woman must feel about leering eyes and cat calls  (03-29-2017, 03:55 AM)burrealist Wrote:  The quiet space seemed inviting The space between the pilot of the vessel With less words, it reads: "... space between pilot and vessel". Do you like that?
 Nope, sorry. Looks a bit broken to me. I'd like to keep this line the length it is. And I feel the 's are needed for certainty.
  (03-29-2017, 03:55 AM)burrealist Wrote:  So I bite on some dried fruit This metaphor could be more powerful if you'd previously mentioned fruit. Try using more nectar metaphors throughout, then carry it on.Soya milk "Soya milk" can easily rest as the resolve for the last line, so a line break here isn't necessary.
 
Thank you for pointing this out, and the suggestion. 
Since I'm pairing the text with imagery, could I possibly use it as means for referencing / repeating metaphors? 
For example, could it work if I showed imagery of fruits beforehand, other than actually mentioning it in words?
  (03-29-2017, 03:55 AM)burrealist Wrote:  And guess I’m about to go with itThe whole of my ensemble
 could do with another note in it
 A little change of rote
 Not estranged – Nice consonance, nice internal rhyme. These five lines are good, but can be reduced to four or three.
 still resembling the strength that I came here with
 >  < Thanks; 
I don't think 4 or 3 lines would fit, as none of the other stanzas is that short.
  (03-29-2017, 03:55 AM)burrealist Wrote:  The lines that I draw At this point, I feel like I've nit-picked so much of your work. There is some consistency in everything I've noted, so I will continue with it.are not there to shame the lands that they claim The drawn lines and claimed land seem odd, and have now appeared from nowhere. Like I said before about the fruit: Metaphors, symbols, etc., give your work absolute strength when they are carried through the entire piece. They evolve, and are permeable. Go back to the beginning-- apply them through permutation.
 Rather rhyme with them,
 with the aim of acclaiming the finery
 of the apricots and pines See, you did it here.
 aligned so divinely
 within the arches of my eyebrows
 
 The lines that I draw
 Rhyme with them Here's a good spot-- the lines, the rhymes, and whatever "them" is, will be so powerful when you apply similar metaphors from the beginning to this provocative point.
 I was trying to be continuously inventive, but you have a strong point, and now I see what it does... 
Thank you!
  (03-29-2017, 03:55 AM)burrealist Wrote:  Marking vows that reverberate inside humble shrines Nice! Ta. 
  (03-29-2017, 03:55 AM)burrealist Wrote:  whose walls are not man-built They're her walls, right?  I don't know if it's me or you this time, but yes
they're her walls, in a way.  (03-29-2017, 03:55 AM)burrealist Wrote:  but not quite yet gilded eitherStill need to feel the resonant power
 of a self-love bible As in, self-help book equated to the power of spirituality?
 and meet the preacher
 that will treasure the space they hold
 for what it is and is not Nice integration of the priest.
 
Correct. 
Thank you.
  (03-29-2017, 03:55 AM)burrealist Wrote:  This sand These two words don't harbor the power two words alone deserve.the land, and the nation, is mine
 And it’s fine to do whatever I favour
 Would you rather it was: 
>This sand; the land, and the nation 
>is mine
 
- Or all in one line?
  (03-29-2017, 03:55 AM)burrealist Wrote:  I recommend looking up what metaphors are and how they are used, then what imagery is and how it's used. The usage of metaphors and imagery seems sloppy.  After a little studying, you'll have a better understanding of your own work. Everything interwoven here needs stronger connection. The stronger the connection of the words, the stronger the connection between you and your lover will be conveyed. The more solid your ideas are, the less abstract this work will be-- spoken or read. Thank you ever so much for your generous elaboration!  
I'll see how I can reflect on this. 
I wonder why are people afraid of abstract poetry - It doesn't seem likewise in art... 
For me it all would be about creativity, invention and giving one the space for enough interpretation.
	 
		
	 
	
	
	
		
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		 (03-26-2017, 11:33 PM)almonds Wrote:  Hello Almo,I have followed the development of this one with something akin to interest but in reality I was curious as to where it (you) were heading. Enough has probably been commented on already to give you some inkling of the problems within, so this is my attempt to offer up an encapsulating crit which may or may not help you to determine your destination....altruistic, I admit.
 OK, first of all, you are bursting to say something. Good. What you are doing, though, is leaving the reader behind in you quest for complexity simplified. It is a common problem. Second, it matters not if you are writing a story, a poem, or lyrics....a title is a common courtesy to the reader. Get one....it will help you and I decide what the hell you are talking about
  Line by line. There will be ouches along the way. It will hurt me more than you.
 
 What inclines
 What makes the brimming SpringLet's get something clear. If you are going to leave out punctuation, either because you do not know how to do it or through some misguided sense of style, let me tell you that most crits will assume you do not know how to do it. So punctuate to clarity.I have faith. Compounding the punctuation problem is the RANDOM capitalising of each line. Purposeless capitalising has gone,it is kaput, dated, outmoded, it is dead, deceased and unworthy of a poet who can "feel" his words...implication? Trying to be pretentiously poetic. Stop it. Howls from ancient purists....enough. You know I am right
  So, let's just start right. This is what you wrote: 
 What inclines What makes the brimming Spring brace the exposed so immaculate, so chaste as though as virginal but if a gaze is that of masculine power would you rather I came bare or covered.
 
 It is balderdash. Why DOES a mouse when it spins? Why, because the higher they get, the fewer....and so is that....but this is POETRY, it is SUPPOSED to make sense in every sense. Are you really happy with that opening...er....sentence?
 
 brace the exposed
 So immaculate, so chaste
 as though as virginal
 But if a gaze is that of a masculine power
 Would you rather I came bare or covered?
 
 
 The aim is what you’re always bothered withThis is gramatically nightmarish. What are you trying to say? I assume YOU know. So just say it. THE aim is definitive but you give no clue as to why  this aim, and this aim only, is up for grabs.
 
 That what is watching How can you seriously say that an aim is watching. You said it. Read what you write and HELP the reader feel what you feel. Unless you have a mental disorder there is just no excuse for this degree of gramatical gobbledygook. Ouch 1
 is always wondering what lies under it allWhat is IT. Unrelated "its" are nonsensical, always.
 To unruin the already ruined,In isolation this is unadulterated nonsense. Notwithstanding the poor  wordplay inherent in the "made up" versus the "obscure"....WHAT is ruined? You do not say.
 or stretch out my frame
 To rehabilitate, renovate, or extendI do not have an inkling as to what this means and unless you are a houseowner with ambitions it come right out of the blue. You are now in danger....and this is a valuable use of a cliche...of losing the plot....whatever it was.
 
 If you weigh what’s mine and what it counters
 How can I please feel botheredJust read this line out loud. No, best not. It is Vogon. You will go completely insane.
 
 
 Sat inside the shared-houseSitting. Only the cat sat on the mat. Sheesh. This is intensive workshopping, alrighty.
 Roaring walls of desire cry outCripes. I like it. What does it mean? I still like it. Let the poem start here.
 for more time, rewiring,
 and something to buy her
 Like a capricious child
 acute in acquiring
 the preciousness of cute
 They eye herThen it all collapses in to a mish-mash of electrical engineering, convoluted sentence structure, meaningless metaphor, ill-chosen words, missing preps...all in grammatical vacuum. Ouch 2.
 
 The quiet space seemed inviting
 The space between the pilot of the vessel
 and the smileless wrestle
 of fear and courage racing each other
 till the winner meets the sighting of the reflection
 Nevertheless I’m tryingDrug induced stuff like this is only made worse if you tell me it is not drug induced.
 
 So I bite on some dried fruit
 Soya milk
 And guess I’m about to go with it
 The whole of my ensemble
 could do with another note in it
 A little change of rote
 Not estranged –
 still resembling the strength that I came here with
 ....and on and on. Suggestion.Read it, re-read it. Punctuate it to clarity. Get it in to your head as a WHOLE...not little bits of fragmented thoughts...forget the hyperbole of poetic excess and go for small but perfect. There is way TOO MUCH wild thinking in this. I could, perhaps, read it all again but you are in the intensive workshopping forum...so why should I? It will be your poem, someday.
 The lines that I draw
 are not there to shame the lands that they claim
 Rather rhyme with them,
 with the aim of acclaiming the finery
 of the apricots and pines
 aligned so divinely
 within the arches of my eyebrows
 
 The lines that I draw
 Rhyme with them
 
 Marking vows that reverberate inside humble shrines
 whose walls are not man-built
 but not quite yet gilded either
 Still need to feel the resonant power
 of a self-love bible
 and meet the preacher
 that will treasure the space they hold
 for what it is and is not
 
 I take the tweezers
 and sign a defining affirmation:
 This sand
 the land, and the nation, is mine
 And it’s fine to do whatever I favour
 For the hand brings bliss
 And it’s what I’ve been missing
 Can you hear the arriving waxwings singing?
 The ringing in your ears
 heralding the reminder
 this budding delivery
 is an attribute of my own fingertips
 Shipping from the same residence
 Equipped with the same energy
 Merging in awe
 Married
 
 Best,
 tectak
 
 ( There's good abstract art and bad abstract art. There must be gradation or all is perfect and/or crap. Ouch 3)
 
 llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll >
  < llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll 
 Oookay, guys;
 
 - this is quite a rough diamond I am trying to polish here for my uni arts project.
 It is supposed to be voice recorded (by me, the author) and used as a narration for a short video I am doing:
 The piece is attempting to addressing people who tend to examine and speculate on one's beauty standards and modes of expression; themes being femininity and self-identification / presentation, which will involve shots of me dressing up in the morning, and some cross-edits with nature motifs.
 Never been into much poetry, so feel free to bring out your chisels and hammers, and dig some sense into me as to how this is going, because I do want to improve my craft!
 Title suggestions are very welcome as well.
 
 Cheers
 
		
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