Lessons from the Fen

[Seraphim]

Lessons from the Fen (revision)


An acorn drops
ripples a moss-filled pond
- my son’s first smile.


Monarchs emerge
navigating the sedge
- hesitant steps.


A rabbit trembles
- concealed beneath the mist
the crouching fox.

Frost-crusted marsh
bullfrogs burrowed in mud
- crane’s parting cry.



Lessons from the Fen



An acorn drops,
ripples the moss-filled pond
- my son’s first smile.

Rain massages,
softens the compact loam
- hesitant steps.

A rabbit trembles
- concealed beneath the mist
the crouching fox.

Frost-crusted marsh
bullfrogs burrowed in mud
- crane’s parting cry.

[Tiger the Lion]

Hello Seraphim and welcome to the Pen. Thanks for your thoughtful feedback so far around the site. This is an enjoyable little collection that holds together pretty well as a whole. I'm curious as to how you settled on 4-6-4 and also about your choice of placing the dashes at the start of lines 3 rather than the more common placement at the end of the second lines. Like I said, I'm more curious than critical. 

Lessons from the Fen


An acorn drops,
ripples the moss-filled pond
- my son’s first smile.

Rain massages,
softens the compact loam I almost want "softens" to be "loosens" here - only because I like the massage idea
- hesitant steps.

A rabbit trembles,
concealed beneath the mist the rabbit or the fox? Grammatically, I'm assuming the rabbit. But there is a slight departure from clarity. 
- the crouching fox.

Frost-crusted marsh,
bullfrogs burrowed in mud
- crane’s parting cry. I like this one best. No "the"s 

Looking forward to seeing more from you,
Paul

[Seraphim]

Thanks Paul

As for the syllable count, I adopted a 4-6-4 pattern a long time ago, based upon the iambic nature of the English language.  Personally, I just feel it flows better, in general. I realize many accept the syllable counts as flexible in English, but I like working within the confines of parameters.  Makes me think and work harder lol.

As for the cut, I mostly like the volte feel at the end.  This started out as the senryu S1, then got curious if I could extend the metaphor.  I’ve some thoughts on modifications, including changing the location of cuts, but wanted to hear from others first.  Your grammatical reading is what I intended, but I’ve considered changing the location of the cut in that stanza to the end of L1, if only to break up the pattern I’d established unconsciously. That would change the imagery from the rabbit hiding from fear, to fox using the mist ascover.  Both work, I think, for my purposes.

I appreciate the comments, and I’ll have a hard copy of your post in hand when I look at revisions. Thanks for taking the time.,

---

Also, I put the dashes at the beginning of the line because I think it creates a better visual separation, tabbing the line to the right.  I think it forces the caesura there a bit better. That’s  all.

[billy]

Lessons from the Fen i like the tying together of the poems with a cover-all title. i think you could forgo any punctuation such as comma and period, let the line do the work. another thing i'd try and do is try to remove words like [the] where you can get away with it. the fox one though it has two [the's] i'd leave as is. it works well enough to keep.[just suggestions mind]' and one example:

An acorn drops
moss-filled pond ripples
- my son’s first smile

i good collection that works well together. for me they need very very little edits. the syllable count works well enough to keep. for me if it works in a different format than the 5-7-5 use it. thanks for the input so far you've given the site.


An acorn drops,
ripples the moss-filled pond
- my son’s first smile.

Rain massages,
softens the compact loam
- hesitant steps.

A rabbit trembles,
concealed beneath the mist
- the crouching fox. i really like the drama and tension i this one.

Frost-crusted marsh,
bullfrogs burrowed in mud
- crane’s parting cry. this also has drama in the cry, very enjoyable.

[Seraphim]

Thanks for commenting, Billy.

S2, to me, is the weakest link. The symbolism/analogy just doesn't work. Needs tossed and rethought, me-thinks. I'm a tough critic lol.

As for your S1 suggestion, and as to why I phrased L2 as I did, I'll refer back to my 'iambic nature' comment to Paul: I want the smooth flow. I'll definitely reconsider, the line, however.

The syllables are just a habit. I'm a bit of a control freak and dictate how I want a poem read. You are correct - they unnecessary in this form. I'll drop them in revision.

You've both directed my attention where it needs to be. It's appreciated.

[billy]

not sure haiku needs iambs in order to work well, but if you want them that's okay as well.

[Seraphim]

not sure haiku needs iambs in order to work well, but if you want them that's okay as well.

It's not about there 'needing' to be iambs, It's not something I even consciously think about anymore. But the English language uses it's non-content words to maintain the flow, and help establish the [natural speaking] rhythm of the line. The patterns and 'rules' are so ingrained in us we don't think of it, but it sounds stilted if we don't use them.

There's also the establishment of one's voice. It takes a long time to develop and it must be one the writer likes.

Actually the whole idea of transposing the Japanese form to English was an exercise in futility. The Japanese pattern is derived from kanji, and each pictogram may have varying syllables in it's pronunciation. A better analogy in English would be a pattern of words, not syllables: 5 words - 7 words - 5 words, so line length would be indeterminate. But, since the English language is accentual-syllabic, that's the standard to which they reverted making the transposition. So if our basis for line length is going to be syllabic, might as well adhere to the conventions of prosody, imo. Our haiku will never be Japanese...

---

revision above

[billy]

what ever you say is good, here are some translations of one of the most translated haiku there is. most are non-iambic and most don't hold to the 575 or any other format except the one that captures the moment. the idea of an haiku was to catch a moment in time with one breath. it doesn't really matter how it translates lengthwise as long as it's in a breath.

The original Japanese:


Furu ike ya
kawazu tobikomu
mizu no oto



Old pond — frogs jumped in — sound of water.

Translated by Lafcadio Hearn


A lonely pond in age-old stillness sleeps . . .
Apart, unstirred by sound or motion . . . till
Suddenly into it a lithe frog leaps.

Translated by Curtis Hidden Page


Into the ancient pond
A frog jumps
Water’s sound!

Translated by D.T. Suzuki


The old pond;
A frog jumps in —
The sound of the water.

Translated by R.H. Blyth


An old pond —
The sound
Of a diving frog.

Translated by Kenneth Rexroth


Pond, there, still and old!
A frog has jumped from the shore.
The splash can be heard.

Translated by Eli Siegel


Old pond
and a frog-jump-in
water-sound

Translated by Harold G. Henderson


The old pond, yes, and
A frog-jumping-in-the-
Water’s noise!

Translated by G.S. Fraser


The ancient pond
A frog leaps in
The sound of the water.

Translated by Donald Keene


old pond
frog leaping
splash

Translated by Cid Corman


The old pond,
A frog jumps in:
Plop!

[Seraphim]

But those are translations of Bashō - not works originally written on the English language. it’s dubious, I think, that translations from kanji into syllabics would fit any syllabic mold. Concepts are lost in the translation, especially since a single kanji has two meanings, depending on which aspect of the kanji one is examining. If I understand it correctly. Comparing translations to works written originally in English seems apples/oranges to me.

But as I said, these are parameters I set for myself for my own purposes. I have no expectations from other people In reference to them. What others do or don’t do isn’t relative to how I write. Nor are my goals or parameters relative to them, unless they choose to adopt them for some reasons. I don’t set them forward as the right way of doing things. It is merely my way.

---

*cue Frank Sinatra* lol