Whats your take
#1
The earth, billions of years old, is constantly evolving and nothing we have now is more or less than anything we've had before, and as a species humans will evolve with the weather.

Humans are destroying the planet.  More fires earth quakes volcanos hurricanes plagues than any other decade or century or millennia because humans can't stop destroying everything.
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#2
I don't care about humans as a species, I care about humans as individuals. Our great evolutionary advantage has always been communication and cooperation, so the best of us have always valued human life. Our "evolution with the weather" is effectively a euphemism for "millions, if not billions, of people will die", and I don't take us "destroying the planet" over us destroying ourselves.
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#3
(07-29-2021, 12:05 AM)CRNDLSM Wrote:  The earth, billions of years old, is constantly evolving and nothing we have now is more or less than anything we've had before, and as a species humans will evolve with the weather.

Humans are destroying the planet.  More fires earth quakes volcanos hurricanes plagues than any other decade or century or millennia because humans can't stop destroying everything.

The earth does not evolve. Species evolve. Multi cellular life is only about 500 million years old. 
Species are able to evolve through natural selection because changes are gradual, allowing for time to adapt. However, having said that we've had mass extinction events before, most notably at the end of the Permian, when 95% of species were wiped out.

Human activity has nothing to do with volcanoes. Far fewer 'plagues' now than in the past. We're incredibly lucky to be living in this age. Even a century ago, people were dying of smallpox and children were facing the prospect of an iron lung after contracting polio. If we go back a little further, to 1878, Princess Alice, the daughter of Queen Victoria, and her eldest daughter, choked to death from diphtheria. A simple shaving cut could kill you then. To say nothing of infant or maternal mortality.

We are the luckiest of all generations of humans. But reading the press, you wouldn't think so. Particularly, the 'liberal' press. The media's business model is sensationalism one way or the other. Scare mongering works just as well. It is helped by the fact that most journalists are thoroughly ignorant of science because if they weren't, let's face it, they'd be working elsewhere. Political journalism remains the only respectable work in that category. But mostly, it's the desire to be sensationalist, to whip up a frenzy and damn the facts.

The right wing media is also agenda driven, and serves to whip up frenzy on the other side. It is particularly pernicious in the English speaking countries where Rupert Murdoch holds sway. These countries are also home to right wing conspiracy nuts, anti-vaxxers, flat earthers, and QAnon types because people can be public nuisances in these countries without facing consequences. Also, popular culture in these countries - particularly the US - is proudly anti-intellectual, so no matter if they flunk history, because it is theyr right to hold an opinion as the founding fathers would of known.

Coming to climate alarmism - we've just had the coldest, wettest winter here in Australia in years. Do you hear anybody talking about that?

This is not to deny anthropogenic GW - it is happening, but the impacts are more subtle and over a longer period of time than the media would like. Heat waves and a warm summer are not AGW. Floods are as much a result of building on the floodplain as anything else. 
But Londoners needing an AC by default in their homes today compared to 2005 is probably AGW.
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#4
I have a misanthropic fantasy.  All humans vanish.  I am a spirit of some kind that can hover over the earth and watch all traces of human habitation on the planet slowly disappear.  From what I've read, it would only take a century or two.  There would always be some trace of us remaining, but much of what we've built would be swallowed up and disintegrate.  The poisons we've put into the environment would be more slowly purged from its system. 

I suppose some other species would rise up to become dominant on the planet and it would probably be just as or more destructive than humans.  But maybe not.
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#5
(07-29-2021, 04:57 AM)TranquillityBase Wrote:  I have a misanthropic fantasy.  All humans vanish.  I am a spirit of some kind that can hover over the earth and watch all traces of human habitation on the planet slowly disappear.  From what I've read, it would only take a century or two.  There would always be some trace of us remaining, but much of what we've built would be swallowed up and disintegrate.  The poisons we've put into the environment would be more slowly purged from its system. 

I suppose some other species would rise up to become dominant on the planet and it would probably be just as or more destructive than humans.  But maybe not.

There are no poisons that humans have put into the environment other than radioactive isotopes. All other poisons - heavy metals and their compounds - were already ocurring as oxides or sulphides before being refined. 
From the earth's POV, the quantity of CO2 in the atmosphere is a fraction of what it was 65 million years ago. I mean, that's how the earth got its load of fossil fuels in the first place - fixation through coalification etc

The only way humanity would disappear in a matter of days or months or even years is through nuclear war or an asteroid impact. Not even an asteroid impact, actually, as people on the other side of the planet would survive on seal meat and berries.
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#6
Not sure we'd be missed...

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#7
(07-29-2021, 05:12 AM)Tiger the Lion Wrote:  Not sure we'd be missed...


It’s fantasy
Any event cataclysmic enough to make humans go extinct would take out any other complicated life forms
Maybe lichen and insects or deep sea fish would survive…maybe
Bacteriae too
But herds of elephants won’t stomp around Sandton mall in abandoned Johannesburg 

Ionising radiation damages DNA
No DNA no life
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#8
(07-29-2021, 05:30 AM)busker Wrote:  
(07-29-2021, 05:12 AM)Tiger the Lion Wrote:  Not sure we'd be missed...

It’s fantasy
Any event cataclysmic enough to make humans go extinct would take out any other complicated life forms
Maybe lichen and insects or deep sea fish would survive…maybe
Bacteriae too
But herds of elephants won’t stomp around Sandton mall in abandoned Johannesburg 

Ionising radiation damages DNA
No DNA no life
Obviously. But it's still mindboggling to consider the implications for the planet if we'd just fuck off already.
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#9
Look at some numbers:  the planet's maybe 5 billion years old as a going concern.  There are more people than that  - one or more for each year, including all those where it was Venusian cloud-oven or inhabited by pre-Cambrian doodles.  And there are trillions upon trillions of dollars - probably enough to keep all the people alive (if they were real) or write up at least a short book about each year.

Of course everyone would want to be 1899, or Andrew Carnegie's first million.
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#10
It's a form of luxuriating, to think about how the world would be without humans. Maybe we are the center of the world, maybe we aren't, but we are by necessity the center of *our* world -- and that's *we*, not *I*. Most of us would be dead without each other. Most of us would rather not be dead, or would rather not suffer. It's fine to luxuriate, but it's important to pay attention.
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#11
To go back to C.'s original post, the question is, would Earth be better off without us.  I think the answer is Yes.  I guess that requires defining the phrase "better off".  Earth would be more itself, more "natural".  It also envisions the Earth as an entity of a kind we can't or won't recognize.

When I look at nature, untouched by man, I don't see a happy paradise.  If it was created by God, I would ask God, why create a world where creatures must devour each other to survive?  That includes "us".  It seems like a cruel Creation to me.

Thought about this topic itself is a luxury for most people.  I no longer have to "work for a living" (I'm retired), but I do have to work at living, so I spend a lot of time luxuriating in thought.  Then in a way, it's not a luxury, because I can't help but "think".  C.'s post gave me something important to think about.  And it is important, that we think about what we are doing to the planet we inhabit.
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#12



Remember when we were all worried we would destroy ourselves with nukes!? Not anymore! Bring on the new apocalypse. Hail climate change!

Humans are the earth.
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