4 a.m.

[TranquillityBase]

Half-moon, bowl of light
tipped over the horizon
pours out a dead haze.

Half-moon, bowl of light
tipped on its side in the sky
pours out a dead haze.

[Magpie]

Nice one Tim

However, 'in the sky' could be seen as redundant

cheers
mark

---

I've just noticed that you are sticking to 5-7-5 which could lead to a whole different debate.
I see this as a Richard Wright type of haiku/poem observation
I still think 'in the sky' is redundant and just filling for the sake of three syllables.
The best alternative I could come up with is

Half-moon, bowl of light
tipped over the horizon
pours out a dead haze.

but I'm not sure if this works

Sorry to be a nuisance

Mark

[TranquillityBase]

Nice one Tim

However, 'in the sky' could be seen as redundant

cheers
mark

---

I've just noticed that you are sticking to 5-7-5 which could lead to a whole different debate.
I see this as a Richard Wright type of haiku/poem observation
I still think 'in the sky' is redundant and just filling for the sake of three syllables.
The best alternative I could come up with is

Half-moon, bowl of light
tipped over the horizon
pours out a dead haze.

but I'm not sure if this works

Sorry to be a nuisance

Mark

Not at all.  You are exactly right about the redundancy and I like your edit.  And it was in fact "over the horizon".  I had no idea RW wrote haiku.  Thanks for the tip and critique.  And now I feel liberated from the 5-7-5 business!

[Magpie]

There's nothing wrong with 5-7-5 it's just that it's not really a haiku as such. The Japanese don't count syllables they count 'onji' which are sounds, so a word like 'mark' would be separated into 'mar' and 'k' - two onji as opposed to one syllable. A better comparison for writing in English would be 3-5-3 if you wanted to stick to a particular structure. Haiku should be short and have that one breath quality with an 'a-ha' moment and usually a cut.
You never professed your poem to be a haiku so that's fine. When I noticed the 5-7-5 structure I was reminded of Richard Wright who wrote thousands of what he called 'haiku' at the end of his life but essentially they were really good 5-7-5 poems/observations like yours.
A good example of a Richard Wright 'haiku' is 

Heaps of black cherries
glittering with drops of rain
in the evening sun

it doesn't have an 'a-ha' moment or a cut but it is a beautiful observation, like a split second photograph.

For a while I used Richard Wright as my reason for writing 5-7-5 haiku, but then I met people like Ray on this site and it changed my writing forever.

5-7-5 is good if you want to stick to a particular structure for discipline and yours works well in that sense - like this one; one of my favourites from Richard Wright

Keep straight down this block,
then turn right where you will find
a peach tree blooming

[Mark A Becker]

Tim said, "And now I feel liberated from the 5-7-5 business!"

And Mark replied: 5-7-5 is good if you want to stick to a particular structure for discipline ...

Being liberated is good Tim, yet I'm quite certain that you wracked your brain to fit the syllable count.  I certainly know the feeling...  I do tend to stick to a particular structure much of the time, as Mark says, for discipline.  It makes each word choice important.

Here's a 5-7-5 (call it what ya want, cause it ain't haiku):

without a word said
I read the nod of your head-
let's play wreck the bed


As regards your piece:

4 a.m. is an interesting title.  (It could actually work as the last line.)

Half-moon, bowl of light  very strong start
tipped over the horizon  this is where the struggle to fit the "7" shows
pours out a dead haze.  "pours out on dead haze" ?? I don't think "a" is needed.  I'd re-think the whole line. (This is where the title could work. It indicates your presence in the very early morning, and suggests sleeplessness/worry/restlessness).

If you just abandon the 5-7-5 I think you could still present a clear image in a very short form piece. Short ones are very tricky. I think writing in a liberated way is more your style, Tim- writing within strict structures can be absolute torture.

I like the idea so much that I have stolen it, and written it like so:

half-moon, bowl of light
tipped over on a dead haze-
4am again 

Mark

[TranquillityBase]

Thanks to both of you.  You've given me a lot to think about.

Mark B., I like your version very much.  It's describes the scene more accurately (the haze wasn't really coming from the "bowl of light") and I originally wanted 4 a.m. in the poem, not as a title.

I'm still thinking the horizon (where the half-moon was at the time, it was just rising) belongs in there.

What about:

Half-moon horizon
bowl of light
tipped over in the haze,
4 a.m. again.

[Mark A Becker]

Half-moon horizon
bowl of light
tipped over in the haze,
4 a.m. again.

Hmm... Trust me, I do agonize over these short ones...

Half-moon horizon "horizon" is too close to "half moon" to have the right effect
bowl of light  I like this image, but... 
tipped over in the haze, something about this line just doesn't feel right
4 a.m. again. the more I think about it, the more I think that a comma is needed after 4am. I don't think you need the periods after am (a.m.).  Though they're gramatically correct, I think they interfere. My reasoning for that comma is to show that this "observation" recurs.

My latest stab at it:

waning moon spills light
on a hazy horizon-
4am, again

I understand what yer going for, and working these short ones is a killer.  I took the liberty to offer "waning moon" instead of "half moon" because I just thought it fit better.  And folks tend to visualize the shape of a waning moon without being told. Even though it was a half-moon you were observing, it won't be half for long, and half-to-quarter is waning. "Waning" and "spills" may also fit the subject better, and "waning" picks up an internal rhyme with "hazy". I dunno... 
My only other suggestion would have been "bowl-like moon pours light", but it's just something about the word "bowl" that conjures the wrong image (could just be me, as usual).

For someone who eschews such tight structure, I am impressed that you're sticking with this.  It's a bitch, ain't it?

Mark

[Magpie]

Excellent thread, I love how we can talk so much about a short poem like this. I'm in the same camp as Mark in that I agonise over these in trying to find the perfect place for the perfect word and then once that is done I agonise over punctuation, should it be a comma or a dash. There is a danger that one can become so absorbed that one loses sight of what the original intention was. 

A lot of this can come down to taste in what is right or wrong. I like bowl of light; but who is right? It's all subjective.
I definitely agree with Mark in writing a.m. as am, no-one will trip over whether it is technically right or not. If it was 5am then perhaps people might wonder who Sam is, but...

you wrote -

Half-moon horizon
bowl of light
tipped over in the haze,
4 a.m. again.


Now that your not sticking with 5-7-5 it makes it slightly easier (I think) - so many possibilities and that can be a problem

Half-moon bowl of light
tipped over the horizon
- 4am again


Half-moon bowl of light
spills out a dead haze
- once more 4am


and so on...


write a few versions that you like and then give it a week and come back to it and it will sometimes seem obvious which one is right. I like all the versions and they all have their unique qualities.
Sometimes I think it's easier to write a long poem - ironically it seems like less work.

Mark

[brynmawr1]

Half-moon, bowl of light
tipped over the horizon
pours out a dead haze.

Half-moon, bowl of light
tipped on its side in the sky
pours out a dead haze.

I like all of the arrangements,, each with their own feel.

A dead haze horizon
half-moon rising
cold white bowl of light
4am, again.

so many possibilities.

[TranquillityBase]

Half-moon, bowl of light
tipped over the horizon
pours out a dead haze.

Half-moon, bowl of light
tipped on its side in the sky
pours out a dead haze.

I like all of the arrangements,, each with their own feel.

A dead haze horizon
half-moon rising
cold white bowl of light
4am, again.

so many possibilities.

I've thrown in a new word choice


Half-moon rising,
cold white bowl of light
pouring out its dead glaze,
4 a.m., again.

[brynmawr1]

Half-moon, bowl of light
tipped over the horizon
pours out a dead haze.

Half-moon, bowl of light
tipped on its side in the sky
pours out a dead haze.

I like all of the arrangements,, each with their own feel.

A dead haze horizon
half-moon rising
cold white bowl of light
4am, again.

so many possibilities.

I've thrown in a new word choice


Half-moon rising,
cold white bowl of light
pouring out its dead glaze,
4 a.m., again.

I like the ending on yours, Tranq.  Ends with the right feel.