Touchdown! (a sestina, as agreed)

[matsunosuperfan]

Touchdown!

I like it when I’m full
of cheese.
It’s great,
okay?
I mean that's four
whole lines exclusively on cheese! Imagine! When

good ol’ suicidal Charlie Brown decreed, “When
will we full
-hearted pilgrims go for
one more spin around the cheese
wheel in the sky? O Great
Pumpkin, Father Gouda—is it not okay

to ever ask for more?” Okay,
not his words exactly, but when
is never soon enough? I say grate
two pounds of parmesan, then tell the chef “I’m full.
I’m full of aged Italians.” See what happens. Cheese
of course is excellent four

little harpooned morsels at a time, just before
swallowing, make sure the toothpick’s out, ok?
To die of cocktail cheese
would be beneath you—when
you up and croak—look, the cemetery here’s been full
since 1988. I wouldn’t call that great,

I’d call it great
-ly problematic. In 1984
my mother tied me to this bobbing rock, fully
aware I couldn’t swim. Okay,
I didn’t die—since when
does missing mean you didn’t try to cheese

someone? Say cheese
to Mr. Scythe, say cheese to “This feels great,
I always hated breathing,” don’t say when
if you don’t really mean it yet. Four
more years of reaching for that football: okay
Lucy, you relentless cunt. Bring it on. Lay it on me fully.

fuck an envoi, where your real voi at?

[Luckieman]

Is it really a sestina if sentences continue across notional stanzas? I find the blank lines somewhat distracting as they aren't really (functionally) stanza breaks at all, just (from the perspective of meaning) apparently arbitrary blank lines in what would otherwise be a continuous free verse poem. So I feel it would work just as well for the reader without the blank lines.

[matsunosuperfan]

Is it really a sestina if sentences continue across notional stanzas? I find the blank lines somewhat distracting as they aren't really (functionally) stanza breaks at all, just (from the perspective of meaning) apparently arbitrary blank lines in what would otherwise be a continuous free verse poem. So I feel it would work just as well for the reader without the blank lines.

yes, it is

I think this would be unreadable as a single block

do you have any substantive comment?

[Luckieman]

Assuming you're really looking for objective critique and as the content of your poem has merit, I'll try to explain. A sestina consists of a number of six-line stanzas, A stanza, by common definition, is equivalent to a paragraph in prose. Therefore it encapsulates a complete concept. No paragraph as commonly defined (and thus no stanza) starts or ends in the middle of a sentence. Consequently, the blank lines here are not stanza breaks, but (from the perspective of the content) arbitrarily placed blank lines which actually detract from the power of your poem by distracting from the message. You are far from alone in this - I find vast numbers of modern poems that conform merely topologically to established forms while ignoring the associated semantic components that make the form what it is. I hope this is substantive enough to help.

[matsunosuperfan]

Assuming you're really looking for objective critique and as the content of your poem has merit, I'll try to explain. A sestina consists of a number of six-line stanzas, A stanza, by common definition, is equivalent to a paragraph in prose. Therefore it encapsulates a complete concept. No paragraph as commonly defined (and thus no stanza) starts or ends in the middle of a sentence. Consequently, the blank lines here are not stanza breaks, but (from the perspective of the content) arbitrarily placed blank lines which actually detract from the power of your poem by distracting from the message. You are far from alone in this - I find vast numbers of modern poems that conform merely topologically to established forms while ignoring the associated semantic components that make the form what it is. I hope this is substantive enough to help.

Good enough for Elizabeth Bishop, good enough for me - https://staff.washington.edu/rmcnamar/383/bishop.html

[Luckieman]

OK, you win the duel.

[JamesG]

I couldn't comment on the technical aspects of this poem, or any other, but I enjoyed this (and found that the breaks made the text more digestible (pun intended)). Not sure I understood the "aged Italians" bit, though; Parma is a place, not a person?

You are right about Lucy of course, but Charlie constantly falling for her trick made him even worse...

[alonso ramoran]

Hey msf,

Where's the envoi? I know this was intended more as an exercise, so I'll bear that in mind throughout my feedback.

The sestina reads strained. Some have suggested to try writing in meter or somewhat in meter or maybe picking word refrains that rhyme, I guess for some sense of cohesion,  but I know you didn't have the liberty to make the latter decision. What I find helpful for me is writing the envoi first, then starting at the beginning of the sestina.

Touchdown!

I like it when I’m full
of cheese.
It’s great,
okay?
I mean that's four
whole lines exclusively on cheese! Imagine! When Ehhh it's a couple short sentences dedicated to cheese and its greatness, broken up into four lines bc sestina. it's not saying much beyond that it's "great"

good ol’ suicidal Charlie Brown decreed, “When nitpick, the quote reads more like a plea than a decree
will we full
-hearted pilgrims go for
one more spin around the cheese
wheel in the sky? O Great
Pumpkin, Father Gouda—is it not okay Pumpkin? Is that a type of pumpkin looking cheese I dont know about?

to ever ask for more?” Okay,
not his words exactly, but when I like this playing with the word "when" throughout the poem, obviously calling to mind waiters asking guests to say when to stop grating their cheese
is never soon enough? I say grate
two pounds of parmesan, then tell the chef “I’m full. I'm not sure why this is repeated when it could be written as "I'm full/of aged Italians." The line break would delay the punchline
I’m full of aged Italians.” See what happens. Cheese
of course is excellent four

little harpooned morsels at a time, just before
swallowing, make sure the toothpick’s out, ok? hmm toothpick. makes me think of game day hors d'oeuvres. that's all i got on bridging the connection between the topic of cheese and football in this piece
To die of cocktail cheese
would be beneath you—when
you up and croak—look, the cemetery here’s been full
since 1988. I wouldn’t call that great,

I’d call it great I don't think this deserves to be hyphenated. You have other word refrains varying in similar ways already---not sure what makes this the exception. It shows the architecture of the sestina too much imo, and there isnt even an envoi!
-ly problematic. In 1984
my mother tied me to this bobbing rock, fully
aware I couldn’t swim. Okay,
I didn’t die—since when
does missing mean you didn’t try to cheese

someone? Say cheese
to Mr. Scythe, say cheese to “This feels great,
I always hated breathing,” don’t say when
if you don’t really mean it yet. Four
more years of reaching for that football: okay
Lucy, you relentless cunt. Bring it on. Lay it on me fully.

fuck an envoi, where your real voi at?

Appreciate the attempt. I should try to do more writing exercises. Off to comment on CRNDLSM's piece now : P

[CRNDLSM]

I appreciate the time! Not sure my critique is valid in a duel, but the envoi is my favorite part of the sestina, the hard part, here id use your first stanza as the envoi at the end because it is compact, starting the poem with 'good ole suicidal Charlie Brown', using 'three' lines or 39 lines, and using the 'four' somewhere else in the envoi. I was very pleased to read something that worked, out of nonsense you were given. Having consistent line lengths does make the form more apparent, otherwise we're just inserting words wherever rather than having designated places. I love the last line, I think the whole thing has potential as a sestina or cut down to a free verse depending on edits. Seeing as it's a throwaway challenge I didnt expect this to be taken remotely seriously. I'd be happy to play again or work on other challenges, when I'm not working and sleeping of course.