Whatever isn’t in the Constitution is left for the People and their States

[Benny2guns]

Skipper Kagamaster
Tenth Amendment Center
April 24, 2010

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

Seemingly so simple, but these twenty-eight words have been constantly misconstrued, circumvented, or flat out ignored.

So what? It’s just a bunch of old-school rhetoric spewed out by some powdered-wig sporting fundamentalists over two hundred years ago. Move along; nothing to see here.

Or is it something more than that? Not to hide my bias (not that I could; why else write a treatise on the 10th?), I find it horribly relevant today.

This amendment, the tenth and last of the Bill of Rights, can be seen as a conclusion to the Constitution as it was originally written; sort of a catch-all for anything not covered in the rest of the document. To fully understand its significance, one first must understand the intent of the framers for the Constitution. Here are a couple of quotes that might help out:

Read entire article
http://colorado.tenthamendmentcenter.com...ir-states/

[billy]

rhetoric really.

it and most writes like it never take into account
the fluidity of time.

the constitution is also a fluid premise. it has to be in order to cover modern times. it will always be open to change. in fact the 1st amendment says so;

The First Amendment (Amendment I) to the United States Constitution is part of the Bill of Rights. The amendment prohibits the making of any law "respecting an establishment of religion", impeding the free exercise of religion, infringing on the freedom of speech, infringing on the freedom of the press, interfering with the right to peaceably assemble or prohibiting the petitioning for a governmental redress of grievances.

a grievance can be an unjust law etc. the people are by the rights of the first amendment allowed to say NO this is wrong, and petition for it to be changed. laws such as unlawful body searches etc.

a law that stops a person from moving without let of hindrance.
while the state has the right to make laws. it doesn't under the constitution, have the right to negate a persons rights.

the constitution has already been amended 27 times. (thats why it's called an amendment) (the 1st ten being the bill of rights.)

[Benny2guns]

The first 10 are in fact the original constitution and not just the bill of rights, saying it that way lends more credance to the other 27 amendments. In fact the first 10 can and may deem any of the others unconstitutional at any time in the future. This is a very important fact to know and remember.
The fed was never intended to have the power it currently uses against the people of the republic and the original framers of the republic tried very hard to ensure that the people would always retain the power to make sure they could not and would not.

[billy]

benny, when the constitution was originally written there was no bill of rights included, they were added later and added despite being unwanted by some. that's why they;re called amendments, and what they protect has changed through the years.

an edit for benny

The U.S. Constitution was drafted on September 17, 1787. It was officially ratified and became effective March 4, 1789. The first ten amendments (the "Bill of Rights") were ratified December 15, 1791. Originally, 12 Amendments were sent to the states....only 10 were ratified.....the original 2nd Amendment is now the 27th.

[Benny2guns]

benny, when the constitution was originally written there was no bill of rights included, they were added later and added despite being unwanted by some. that's why they;re called amendments, and what they protect has changed through the years.

an edit for benny

The U.S. Constitution was drafted on September 17, 1787. It was officially ratified and became effective March 4, 1789. The first ten amendments (the "Bill of Rights") were ratified December 15, 1791. Originally, 12 Amendments were sent to the states....only 10 were ratified.....the original 2nd Amendment is now the 27th.

Excuse me I forgot to say ratified. Maybe you missed my first post they were actually the first and only 10 to be ratified.
For Billy...
So, what does this all have to do with the 10th Amendment? Well, once we understand that the Constitution was not meant to grant the Federal government power but to limit the scope of the Federal government’s power, we can look at it in a proper light. In a nutshell, it says that whatever isn’t laid out in the Constitution is left in the hands of the People and their States. Think about that for a minute. It means that whatever rights you think you have and whatever powers you think the government ought to have, barring what’s already written down in the Constitution, are supposed to be dealt with at the State or interpersonal level. The House of Representatives and the Senate are not supposed to be the major law-making bodies in these United States; the State and local legislatures are supposed to be.

[billy]

Excuse me I forgot to say ratified. Maybe you missed my first post they were actually the first and only 10 to be ratified.
For Billy...
So, what does this all have to do with the 10th Amendment? Well, once we understand that the Constitution was not meant to grant the Federal government power but to limit the scope of the Federal government’s power, we can look at it in a proper light. In a nutshell, it says that whatever isn’t laid out in the Constitution is left in the hands of the People and their States. Think about that for a minute. It means that whatever rights you think you have and whatever powers you think the government ought to have, barring what’s already written down in the Constitution, are supposed to be dealt with at the State or interpersonal level. The House of Representatives and the Senate are not supposed to be the major law-making bodies in these United States; the State and local legislatures are supposed to be.

they were the only ten to be ratified?
wtf, all the amendments have to be ratified or else their only amendments pending.

for benny. (note the ratification dates.)


Amendments 1 - 10: Bill of Rights (Ratified on 12/15/1791)

Amendment 1: Rights of freedom of religion (prohibits establishment of one religion over another by law, practicing religion freely), freedom of expression, freedom of speech, freedom of assembly and freedom of press.

Amendment 2: Right to possess arms.

Amendment 3: Quartering of soldiers prohibited during peacetime. Soldiers should be quartered at a civilian home only with the owners permission.

Amendment 4: Freedom from seizure of property, arrests and searches without a specific warrant.

Amendment 5: Prohibits trial for a crime except on indictment of a Grand Jury and double jeopardy, prohibits punishment without legal procedures and taking away of private property without adequate compensation.

Amendment 6: Right to a public and speedy trial by an impartial jury, to confront the witnesses against the accused and to have a legal attorney in defense of the accused.

Amendment 7: Right to trial by a jury in civil cases.

Amendment 8: Prohibits imposing cruel, unusual punishments and fines, prohibits granting excessive bails.

Amendment 9: Assures the recognition of those rights that people may have but are not listed here.

Amendment 10: Provides that the powers that are not given to the United States nor prohibited by the constitution are reserved to the states respectively or to the people.

Amendments 11 - 27

Amendment 11: Clearly states the judicial powers of the US states and the federal government on foreign nationals and the limitations of the citizens to sue states under federal law. Ratified on 2/7/1795.

Amendment 12: Specifies the procedure for electing the president and the vice-president of the US separately by ballot votes. Ratified on 6/15/1804.

Amendment 13: Establishes the abolishment of slavery from the US and all the places that fall under its jurisdiction. Ratified on 12/6/1865.

Amendment 14: Broadly defines the parameters of the US citizenship, prohibits the states from reducing or diminishing the privileges of citizens and emphasizes their 'right to due process and the equal protection of the law'. Ratified on 7/9/1868.

Amendment 15: The citizens' right to vote shall not be denied by the states or the federal government on the basis of race, color or previous status of servitude. Ratified on 2/3/1870.

Amendment 16: Authorizes the federal government to collect taxes on income without apportionment. Ratified on 2/3/1913.

Amendment 17: Establishes the direct election of the senators to the United States Senate. Ratified on 4/8/1913.

Amendment 18: Prohibits the manufacture, sale, transportation, import or export of intoxicating beverages within the US and all the territories falling under its jurisdiction. Ratified on 1/16/1919.

Amendment 19: Establishes that the citizens' right to vote shall not be denied on the basis of their gender or sex. Ratified on 8/18/1920.

Amendment 20: States in detail the terms of office that the President, the Vice-President, the Senators and the Representatives shall hold. Ratified on 1/23/1933.

Amendment 21: Repeals the 18th Amendment. Prohibits the importation of intoxicating beverages. Ratified on 12/5/1933.

Amendment 22: Establishes that the Presidential term is limited to two years and a person shall be elected to the presidential office only once. Ratified on 2/27/1951.

Amendment 23: Allows the representation of the District of Columbia in the Presidential elections. Ratified on 3/29/1961.

Amendment 24: Prohibits the non-payment of poll tax or other tax as a basis of denial of the right to vote. Ratified on 1/23/1964.

Amendment 25: The Vice President shall become President in case the President is removed from office or in case of his death. Ratified on 2/10/1967.

Amendment 26: Prohibits the federal government or the state from denying any citizen who is 18 years or above, the right to vote. Ratified on 7/1/1971.

Amendment 27: Establishes that any law that increases or decreases the Congressional pay shall not be put to effect until the next term of office of the representatives begins. Ratified on 5/7/1992.

have you read the other 18 amendmants?

have you see the 18th amendment and then the 21st which repeals the 18th which in effect stops the 18th being an amendment.

or the 16th which allows the gov to collect taxs. ( i seem to remember your link saying all taxes must go to the state)

i found these two amendmants good as well;

Amendment 13: Establishes the abolishment of slavery from the US and all the places that fall under its jurisdiction. Ratified on 12/6/1865.

Amendment 14: Broadly defines the parameters of the US citizenship, prohibits the states from reducing or diminishing the privileges of citizens and emphasizes their 'right to due process and the equal protection of the law'. Ratified on 7/9/1868.

i can see where the state has supreme power outside the 1st ten amends.


the first ten amendments as you so eloquently use are known as the bil pf rights. it does not negate the fact that the rest (11 to 27) are also laid down in law and must be followed by the individual states as and where stated.

is does not negate the fact that another 27 amendments can be made and ratified and the individual states would have no say what ever once they had been ratified.


the gove can and does make and ratify amendmants as it sees fit.

the last 12 having been created and ratified within the last 100 years.

in truth the gov of the usa are indeed the major lawmakers of the country.

the individual state can only pass local laws which can and often are overwritten by the fedral gov. laws such as the serving of booze, income tax, the age of voting, and also the right for women to vote. to name just a few.

in truth there isn't actually a lot that isn't in the constitution. and what isn't can be placed there with an amendment to the constitution.

you really thing the south wanted to abolish slavery?
no they didn't
but once the north put the abolition of slavery into the constitution they had no choice.

[Benny2guns]

Thanks Bill, As for slavery, neither side wanted it abolished but it was seen to have been done. Slavery was not abolished by any stretch of the imagination by the way Bill, it has in fact and very cleverly been made invisible.
Fact is that the first 10 can over rule the rest at any time. They also control the inclusion of any new amendments. Thats the way most see it as I have come to understand it.

[billy]

then i believe some see it wrong, each and every amendment has the same weight in law. the 1st ten seem more important because collectively they are known as the bill of rights.

all amendments can be altered changed or dismissed by the inclusion of a new amendment superseding it. (all it needs is ratification)

interpretation of an amendment can also be be changed and has been on many occasions by the supreme court, the right to bare arms being one of them. freedom of the press being another with the advent of the pc.

the 1st ten do not nor have ever over ruled another amendment, they have no need to.

the right to bare arms, for instance doesn't over rule the law that sawn off shotguns are illegal to own in the united states.
both are separate laws within the first amendment. neither of which has any bearing on any other amendment such as the right to vote, etc.

[billy]

then i believe some see it wrong, each and every amendment has the same weight in law. the 1st ten seem more important because collectively they are known as the bill of rights.

all amendments can be altered changed or dismissed by the inclusion of a new amendment superseding it. (all it needs is ratification)

interpretation of an amendment can also be be changed and has been on many occasions by the supreme court, the right to bare arms being one of them. freedom of the press being another with the advent of the pc.

the 1st ten do not nor have ever over ruled another amendment, they have no need to.

the right to bare arms, for instance doesn't over rule the law that sawn off shotguns are illegal to own in the united states.
both are separate laws within the first amendment. neither of which has any bearing on any other amendment such as the right to vote, etc.

the 4th amendment isn't the same one that was originally written either.
now the law states if you can't account for you possessions and how you come to be able to afford them they can be taken from you (without a warrant) and frozen until you show proof of ownership and the origin of funds used in their purchase) with out said proof you lose your goods.

customs have the same power of seizure, mere ownership is not reason enough to stop the goods being taken from you.
so thats the 2nd and 4th amendment thats been dramatically changed.

[Benny2guns]

I don't agree Bill. The 10th can not be changed or removed, I think you might agree with me on this no?
If you do then you may agree with me that the law that says Cut down shot guns are illegel can in fact be reversed to say that they are now legel.
This is why I say that the first 10 really do have the capability in the right hands to change every one of the amendments that came after them.
The original 10 have not been changed, they still read the same way as they did when they were written.
Amendments have been added but can also be changed or removed altogether.
The first ten can not.

[billy]

in truth the 10th is not a law as much as a statement and therefore needs never change. (it's a bit of fluff to make it look like the gov doesn't have all the power)

read it what does it actually say.

it's like saying this;
when benny catches and kills a bear bill can have all the parts of the bear benny says he doesn't want. basically it says.

benny has whatever he wants of the bear, and if you don't like it he'll just make an amendment that says all the bear belongs to benny.

so no it wont get changed because it's hold no actual weight or substance.

as for them not being changed, others also have not been changed. in truth they don't have to be changed.

the amendments 1,2,4,6,7,8,9 at one time did not apply to blacks or slaves. now slaves have gone but they do apply to blacks. (and chinese americas) which prove their interpretation has in fact changed.

only the meaning of them has to be changed (the interpretation) and guess what, thats right it's the supreme court that tells the american people how to interpret them) it's why sawn off shot guns that were'nt banned, now are.

it's why you can now have your property taken from you without your say so.
it's why woman are classed equally.
it's why blacks are now classed as (the people)

all the above has changed because the law interprets the bill of rights differently.

[Benny2guns]

in truth the 10th is not a law as much as a statement and therefore needs never change. (it's a bit of fluff to make it look like the gov doesn't have all the power)

read it what does it actually say.

it's like saying this;
when benny catches and kills a bear bill can have all the parts of the bear benny says he doesn't want. basically it says.

benny has whatever he wants of the bear, and if you don't like it he'll just make an amendment that says all the bear belongs to benny.

so no it wont get changed because it's hold no actual weight or substance.

So your of the mind that there is nothing to see here move along then, lol, I think not Bill, the tenth was not put there to fill space at all.
The tenth says Benny killed the bear and benny can give the bear to any person he so choses to and you can't tell him he can't.
You also can not make a law that say's he can't at federal level. If you do it is unconstitutional and benny's lawyers will cause a big rucuss along with millions of other bear hunters to see that your law is removed.
EDIT: Why oh why did I tell you I shot that bear.

[billy]

in truth the 10th is not a law as much as a statement and therefore needs never change. (it's a bit of fluff to make it look like the gov doesn't have all the power)

read it what does it actually say.

it's like saying this;
when benny catches and kills a bear bill can have all the parts of the bear benny says he doesn't want. basically it says.

benny has whatever he wants of the bear, and if you don't like it he'll just make an amendment that says all the bear belongs to benny.

so no it wont get changed because it's hold no actual weight or substance.

So your of the mind that there is nothing to see here move along then, lol, I think not Bill, the tenth was not put there to fill space at all.
The tenth says Benny killed the bear and benny can give the bear to any person he so choses to and you can't tell him he can't.
You also can not make a law that say's he can't at federal level. If you do it is unconstitutional and benny's lawyers will cause a big rucuss along with millions of other bear hunters to see that your law is removed.
EDIT: Why oh why did I tell you I shot that bear.

oh look benny killed a bear (earnt x amount of dollars)right benny, the bears worth 500 dollars lets say you ow us 200 in tax, fuck it lets change it so you owe us 300 in tax and if you sell it you have to collect x amount in tax from the person you sell it to. (and you may not pay the tax, but that would be breaking the law)

the 10th is fluff and the gov doesnt need to amend it because it can amend any of the others it wants to.

or how about,

today we created an amendment that makes bears an endangered species and if we catch benny killing one we'll throw him in jail.

fuck, no permits for benny because the state can no longer issue them.

benny has to hunt bear illegally.

i seriously cannot believe that you said they can't make such a law at federal level?

especially for benny;

The United States Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) is a federal government agency within the U.S. Department of the Interior dedicated to the management of fish, wildlife, and habitats. The mission of the agency reads as "working with others to conserve, protect, and enhance fish, wildlife, plants and their habitats for the continuing benefit of the American people."

[Benny2guns]

in truth the 10th is not a law as much as a statement and therefore needs never change. (it's a bit of fluff to make it look like the gov doesn't have all the power)

read it what does it actually say.

it's like saying this;
when benny catches and kills a bear bill can have all the parts of the bear benny says he doesn't want. basically it says.

benny has whatever he wants of the bear, and if you don't like it he'll just make an amendment that says all the bear belongs to benny.

so no it wont get changed because it's hold no actual weight or substance.

So your of the mind that there is nothing to see here move along then, lol, I think not Bill, the tenth was not put there to fill space at all.
The tenth says Benny killed the bear and benny can give the bear to any person he so choses to and you can't tell him he can't.
You also can not make a law that say's he can't at federal level. If you do it is unconstitutional and benny's lawyers will cause a big rucuss along with millions of other bear hunters to see that your law is removed.
EDIT: Why oh why did I tell you I shot that bear.

oh look benny killed a bear (earnt x amount of dollars)right benny, the bears worth 500 dollars lets say you ow us 200 in tax, fuck it lets change it so you owe us 300 in tax and if you sell it you have to collect x amount in tax from the person you sell it to. (and you may not pay the tax, but that would be breaking the law)

the 10th is fluff and the gov doesnt need to amend it because it can amend any of the others it wants to.

or how about,

today we created an amendment that makes bears an endangered species and if we catch benny killing one we'll throw him in jail.

fuck, no permits for benny because the state can no longer issue them.

benny has to hunt bear illegally.

The tenth is not Fluff, lol, it gives the local governments the power to control and make local law and keeps it away from the fed that you contend has the power that the tenth say's it does not.
Your bear has nothing to do with it.

[billy]

The tenth is not Fluff, lol, it gives the local governments the power to control and make local law and keeps it away from the fed that you contend has the power that the tenth say's it does not.
Your bear has nothing to do with it.

its fluff, you get your hunting permit from the state correct? (if you're american)

well these fuckers can change all that anytime they want. on the subject of wildlife, hunting and conservation they're the dogs bollocks. the say no to a month in the season of the hunting months and it's knocked off.

The United States Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) is a federal government agency within the U.S. Department of the Interior dedicated to the management of fish, wildlife, and habitats. The mission of the agency reads as "working with others to conserve, protect, and enhance fish, wildlife, plants and their habitats for the continuing benefit of the American people."

for almost ever scenario you mention i can find a fed department that can change the rules willy nilly.
the tenth is fluff to make it look like the states have some rights.
they may have but in truth they don't have any individual rights as a state that can't be overwritten by a fed law or bill.

[Benny2guns]

The tenth is not Fluff, lol, it gives the local governments the power to control and make local law and keeps it away from the fed that you contend has the power that the tenth say's it does not.
Your bear has nothing to do with it.

its fluff, you get your hunting permit from the state correct? (if you're american)

well these fuckers can change all that anytime they want. on the subject of wildlife, hunting and conservation they're the dogs bollocks. the say no to a month in the season of the hunting months and it's knocked off.

The United States Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) is a federal government agency within the U.S. Department of the Interior dedicated to the management of fish, wildlife, and habitats. The mission of the agency reads as "working with others to conserve, protect, and enhance fish, wildlife, plants and their habitats for the continuing benefit of the American people."

for almost ever scenario you mention i can find a fed department that can change the rules willy nilly.
the tenth is fluff to make it look like the states have some rights.
they may have but in truth they don't have any individual rights as a state that can't be overwritten by a fed law or bill.

Sure you can but that does not change the fact that the tenth is not fluff. There have been many laws pulled over the comman mans eyes in the states as they are blind like cattle on a farm being hearded where ever the farmer wishes. This will if we are very lucky change and the people will open their eyes to the criminal fraud that has be-set them. JMO.

[billy]

The tenth is not Fluff, lol, it gives the local governments the power to control and make local law and keeps it away from the fed that you contend has the power that the tenth say's it does not.
Your bear has nothing to do with it.

its fluff, you get your hunting permit from the state correct? (if you're american)

well these fuckers can change all that anytime they want. on the subject of wildlife, hunting and conservation they're the dogs bollocks. the say no to a month in the season of the hunting months and it's knocked off.

The United States Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) is a federal government agency within the U.S. Department of the Interior dedicated to the management of fish, wildlife, and habitats. The mission of the agency reads as "working with others to conserve, protect, and enhance fish, wildlife, plants and their habitats for the continuing benefit of the American people."

for almost ever scenario you mention i can find a fed department that can change the rules willy nilly.
the tenth is fluff to make it look like the states have some rights.
they may have but in truth they don't have any individual rights as a state that can't be overwritten by a fed law or bill.

Sure you can but that does not change the fact that the tenth is not fluff. There have been many laws pulled over the comman mans eyes in the states as they are blind like cattle on a farm being hearded where ever the farmer wishes. This will if we are very lucky change and the people will open their eyes to the criminal fraud that has be-set them. JMO.

just to get this 10th thing out of the way.

what does the 10th mean to you?
in your own words,
just a couple of lines.

[Benny2guns]

Why, the tenth thing will never be out of the way. You will never change your stance, nor will I.

[billy]

so i take it you won't tell me in your words what the 10th means.
is it because it actually means jack shit?
if not just say what it means to you.

then i'll show you why it means jack shit. why it carries no weight and why it has no substance. first though i'd love to know what you think it really says. (the actual words of it)

fuck it i'll break it down anyway.

this is the bill;
Provides that the powers that are not given to the United States nor prohibited by the constitution are reserved to the states respectively or to the people.

basically the state gets to make rules that don't conflict with the gov.
basically the gov gets to fuck with whatever law the state makes as and when it wants.

the 10th hold no weight. all state legislation can be over ridden by any federal law they want to use.. if they bring in a fed law that all gays can marry the state can't say no.

if the supreme court says under the constitution gays have as much right to marry as heteros , the individual state can't and won't say no.
they may challange it but they will not say no.

when you can show me otherwise we can carry on the discussion.

[Benny2guns]

so i take it you won't tell me in your words what the 10th means.
is it because it actually means jack shit?
if not just say what it means to you.

then i'll show you why it means jack shit. why it carries no weight and why it has no substance. first though i'd love to know what you think it really says. (the actual words of it)

fuck it i'll break it down anyway.

this is the bill;
Provides that the powers that are not given to the United States nor prohibited by the constitution are reserved to the states respectively or to the people.

basically the state gets to make rules that don't conflict with the gov.
basically the gov gets to fuck with whatever law the state makes as and when it wants.

the 10th hold no weight. all state legislation can be over ridden by any federal law they want to use.. if they bring in a fed law that all gays can marry the state can't say no.

if the supreme court says under the constitution gays have as much right to marry as heteros , the individual state can't and won't say no.
they may challange it but they will not say no.

when you can show me otherwise we can carry on the discussion.

What gives you the right to assume you have the right to say when the discussion can continue? Seems your getting a small bit pissed off for no good reason.
My understanding of the tenth is the opposite of yours. I believe as many people do that mine is the correct one. Thats why the tenth is used to try to reverse many laws made by the fed.
You may respond if you wish but do not expect a responce.