Rebekka

[milo]

You can replace my coffee cup;
the chinked and scarred
and weather-stained
remnant of our breakfast table;
the last of solitude.

You can have Matthias kiss
my savior's blackened lips;
the sweet black of Christ's
dead lips or have him take
my heavy seat; the collaborator.

And I will not betray you;
-and the unsaid accusation
echoes back at me-
though you would throw
our doors open, welcome soldiers
in to boot-scar stairs and pull
the walnut bureau drawers;
rummage through our things
-upturn the nothingness
of photographs and
letters, underwear; cascade
our unlived lives onto the floor-
though you would rend your shirt
at the breast, offer up your secrets
at the breast; the collaborator.

And I will not betray you;
though you whisper a tormented
past across my unworn threshold,
though you carry plastic shopping
bags that tear with the weight
of abandoned clothing from
the quiet huddle of families hidden
in the root cellars or abandoned churches;
temples, though you double up
with train-worn luggage; baggage,
and someone else's baby's shoes.

And I will not tuck my hands
under your shirt and grope
about your breasts to find
a sack of silver or palm
about your pockets when
you find my lips in front of strangers.

milo

[tectak]

Hi milo,
Not interested in the content of this one...or more correctly, disinterested. I will stick to nit picking.
You can replace my coffee cup;
the chinked and scarred
and weather-stained
remnant of our breakfast table;
the last of solitude. Treating this stanza holistically, there are spaces in the intent. Why is the cup weather stained and does it matter? Why is it in need of replacement if it is all that's left and why does this matter? Will we find out in S2?

You can have Matthias kiss
my savior's blackened lips;
the sweet black of Christ's
dead lips or have him take
my heavy seat; the collaborator. Hyperspace shift. How did we get here. I only mentioned the cup because you did. Now we're all (too) lippy and black and profoundly connotative. Colonic evacuation here, too, but they, the semi colons, seem to be used as "breaks" in consideration...almost like this; actually, no, I take that back; no, dammit; that is what I meant. I think this stanza could be better formulated to say just one thing clearly. The "or" only adds to the confusion of choice.

And I will not betray you;
-and the unsaid accusation
echoes back at me- the "and" here following the "or-ness" of the previous stanza is too boolean for the spirituality of the message. Is this and/or/if/then (il)logical progression deliberate?
though you would throw
our doors open, welcome soldiers
in to boot-scar stairs and pull
the walnut bureau drawers;
rummage through our things
-upturn the nothingness
of photographs and
letters, underwear; cascade
our unlived lives onto the floor-
though you would rend your shirt
at the breast, offer up your secrets
at the breast; the collaborator. Fiery stuff but quelled by the deoxygenating blanket of over-punctuation. I feel I want a little air of my own, here. Rapidly listing transient thoughts gives psychiatrists great insight to inner thinking. Lot of breasts. Good name for a bra ," Collaborator".

And I will not betray you;
though you whisper a tormented
past across my unworn threshold,
though you carry plastic shopping
bags that tear with the weight
of abandoned clothing from
the quiet huddle of families hidden
in the root cellars or abandoned churches;
temples, though you double up "temples" is isolated by slapdash punctuation. Are you making some point, here? I just don't get this almost deliberate inconsistency of competence. Why this squall of sqiggly marks? Needs looking at. Getting very list-like.
with train-worn luggage; baggage,
and someone else's baby's shoes. Though technically correct I am now suspicious of the squiggles and think I would like " ...(no and) someone else's baby shoes" . I think that's what we say. Baby shoes....not baby's shoes. Hmmm.



And I will not tuck my hands
under your shirt and grope
about your breasts to find
a sack of silver or palm
about your pockets when
you find my lips in front of strangers. and,and,and more breasts please, and, and lips, too, yes., more lips and breasts.

milo

Thank god for something to champ down on....the soup was getting watery. This is not easy reading but read it I will.
Monday is my whisky night. I will return tomorrow. Too many ands not enough hands in final stanza. Easily avoided.
Balvenie Double-wood next.
Breast,
tocteak
All about how it sounds. I struggled with what it says. Does that matter? Probably not. I cannot help but feel that there is a very active nucleus in this one atom. Something is fizzing internally but it never quite meets up with enough mass to go critical. It is like, and here is my downfall metaphor, a damp nuclear bomb not quite going off. The punctuation makes it sputter along...always in imminent demise but still liable to go off in one's face. Content is a mystery. That's squared the circle. Did I enjoy the ride? Yes, I guess so. Mystery tour.
Best,
tectak[/b]

[Truerenigma]

e='milo' pid='124664' dateline='1367270823']
You can replace my coffee cup;
the chinked and scarred
and weather-stained
remnant of our breakfast table;
the last of solitude. Good opening stanza with the imagery, but lacking a bit in lyrics/narrative L1 is excellent, you have narrative and imagery combined. L1-3 good imagery, but we're over punctuating and over modifying, in list form, to achieve our density, this seems familiar somehow. L4 back to lyrical narrative, rescuing the stanza.

You can have Matthias kiss
my savior's blackened lips; Great two lines
the sweet black of Christ's back to listing, is this redundant explanation/ image needed? I think you should choose one or the other, I know you want to say .."kiss my savior."., and you also want the dead Christ image in there, but I would trim the second line, and move the third up, or find a way to consolidate so you can keep your lyric.
dead lips or have him take feels like there should be a comma after lips.
my heavy seat; the collaborator. Interesting, the plot thickens, I like the collaborator lyric throughout, in has a Great Narrator feel to it. I can't remember the guys name but there is a narrator who does movies and commercials with that deep voice, I keep hearing him say "the collaborator in a suspenseful tone. Makes me wanna write some more...anyway, back to the task at hand..

And I will not betray you; Another great refrain, but the pattern continues :
-and the unsaid accusation
echoes back at me-
though you would throw
our doors open, welcome soldiers good narrative
in to boot-scar stairs and pull
the walnut bureau drawers;
rummage through our things
-upturn the nothingness
of photographs and
letters, underwear; cascade
our unlived lives onto the floor- list
though you would rend your shirt good narrative
at the breast, offer up your secrets
at the breast; the collaborator. good refrain(s)

And I will not betray you; good refrain
though you whisper a tormented
past across my unworn threshold, nice lyric
though you carry plastic shopping
bags that tear with the weight
of abandoned clothing from
the quiet huddle of families hidden
in the root cellars or abandoned churches; decent narrative, good Imagery
temples, though you double up one time too many, now its a list of things "you though do". Good imagery, narrative could be reworked though.
with train-worn luggage; baggage,
and someone else's baby's shoes.

And I will not tuck my hands
under your shirt and grope
about your breasts to find
a sack of silver or palm
about your pockets when
you find my lips in front of strangers.

I am ambivalent about the (lack of) punctuation in the ending along with all the "abouts, ands , and ors" because I like the rhythm, however, if you were wondering if it would be noticeable, it is. You may want to consider a small edit here, It wouldn't take much.
milo
[/quote]


I'm just over-ly going into great detail; regarding minor things mostly. Overall I really like the poem. It is;--strong, detailed; direct, precise, and clear.

Thanks for the read. Really, all jokes and critique aside, very nice poem.

[milo]

e='milo' pid='124664' dateline='1367270823']
You can replace my coffee cup;
the chinked and scarred
and weather-stained
remnant of our breakfast table;
the last of solitude. Good opening stanza with the imagery, but lacking a bit in lyrics/narrative L1 is excellent, you have narrative and imagery combined. L1-3 good imagery, but we're over punctuating and over modifying, in list form, to achieve our density, this seems familiar somehow. L4 back to lyrical narrative, rescuing the stanza.

You can have Matthias kiss
my savior's blackened lips; Great two lines
the sweet black of Christ's back to listing, is this redundant explanation/ image needed? I think you should choose one or the other, I know you want to say .."kiss my savior."., and you also want the dead Christ image in there, but I would trim the second line, and move the third up, or find a way to consolidate so you can keep your lyric.
dead lips or have him take feels like there should be a comma after lips.
my heavy seat; the collaborator. Interesting, the plot thickens, I like the collaborator lyric throughout, in has a Great Narrator feel to it. I can't remember the guys name but there is a narrator who does movies and commercials with that deep voice, I keep hearing him say "the collaborator in a suspenseful tone. Makes me wanna write some more...anyway, back to the task at hand..

And I will not betray you; Another great refrain, but the pattern continues :
-and the unsaid accusation
echoes back at me-
though you would throw
our doors open, welcome soldiers good narrative
in to boot-scar stairs and pull
the walnut bureau drawers;
rummage through our things
-upturn the nothingness
of photographs and
letters, underwear; cascade
our unlived lives onto the floor- list
though you would rend your shirt good narrative
at the breast, offer up your secrets
at the breast; the collaborator. good refrain(s)

And I will not betray you; good refrain
though you whisper a tormented
past across my unworn threshold, nice lyric
though you carry plastic shopping
bags that tear with the weight
of abandoned clothing from
the quiet huddle of families hidden
in the root cellars or abandoned churches; decent narrative, good Imagery
temples, though you double up one time too many, now its a list of things "you though do". Good imagery, narrative could be reworked though.
with train-worn luggage; baggage,
and someone else's baby's shoes.

And I will not tuck my hands
under your shirt and grope
about your breasts to find
a sack of silver or palm
about your pockets when
you find my lips in front of strangers.

I am ambivalent about the (lack of) punctuation in the ending along with all the "abouts, ands , and ors" because I like the rhythm, however, if you were wondering if it would be noticeable, it is. You may want to consider a small edit here, It wouldn't take much.
milo

I'm just over-ly going into great detail; regarding minor things mostly. Overall I really like the poem. It is;--strong, detailed; direct, precise, and clear.

Thanks for the read. Really, all jokes and critique aside, very nice poem.
[/quote]

Thank you for this excellent crit, it is good to see so much work going into it.

I think you make an excellent point about the abundance/abuse of prepositions, lord knows I need a 'prep' cop.

As for the conjunctions, of course solid advice and advice I have given myself, I kind of abandoned it here and thought I could put it to good effect, similar I suppose with the repetition, but you know, I love repetition anyway so I am always experimenting with it.

Once again, thank you for the time you put into it, it was excellent crit.

milo

[billy]

i see the religious connotations within the poem but struggle to see the why. i'm guessing some cheating went on but i'm not really sure and i feel i should be with such an in depth poem. the 1st stanza sets up what i get of the poem. even the judas stand in was okay to a point but then religion reared up and i was screwed probably just me not reading right. i see lots of good stuff in the poem but for different reasons than i think it was intended. , i think i'll have to revisit a few more times, if i get the solid gist of it, i'll leave more feedback

thanks for the read.

You can replace my coffee cup;
the chinked and scarred
and weather-stained was it left outside a suggestion would be bean-stained
remnant of our breakfast table;
the last of solitude. this line doesn't seem to do or add anything.

You can have Matthias kiss should it be Mathias'
my savior's blackened lips; is mathias your saviour?
the sweet black of Christ's
dead lips or have him take
my heavy seat; the collaborator. love this stanza apart from the ambiguity of the 2nd line. maybe a period after kiss.

And I will not betray you; not sure this 'and' does you any favours in setting up the next
-and the unsaid accusation
echoes back at me-
though you would throw
our doors open, welcome soldiers
in to boot-scar stairs and pull great line though where did the soldier line come from
the walnut bureau drawers;
rummage through our things
-upturn the nothingness
of photographs and i'd suggest moving letters to this line
letters, underwear; cascade and cascade to the next, leaving underwear on it's one (italicised)
our unlived lives onto the floor-
though you would rend your shirt
at the breast, offer up your secrets
at the breast; the collaborator.

And I will not betray you; i think if you use this as a refrain, a constant use would be best.
though you whisper a tormented
past across my unworn threshold,
though you carry plastic shopping
bags that tear with the weight
of abandoned clothing from
the quiet huddle of families hidden
in the root cellars or abandoned churches;
temples, though you double up
with train-worn luggage; baggage,
and someone else's baby's shoes.

And I will not tuck my hands
under your shirt and grope
about your breasts to find more breasts?
a sack of silver or palm i'm thinking this relates to the mathias line who was a stand in for judas. that connection works really well by why is he in the poem
about your pockets when
you find my lips in front of strangers.

milo

[milo]

i see the religious connotations within the poem but struggle to see the why. i'm guessing some cheating went on but i'm not really sure and i feel i should be with such an in depth poem. the 1st stanza sets up what i get of the poem. even the judas stand in was okay to a point but then religion reared up and i was screwed probably just me not reading right. i see lots of good stuff in the poem but for different reasons than i think it was intended. , i think i'll have to revisit a few more times, if i get the solid gist of it, i'll leave more feedback

thanks for the read.

You can replace my coffee cup;
the chinked and scarred
and weather-stained was it left outside a suggestion would be bean-stained
remnant of our breakfast table;
the last of solitude. this line doesn't seem to do or add anything.

You can have Matthias kiss should it be Mathias'
my savior's blackened lips; is mathias your saviour?
the sweet black of Christ's
dead lips or have him take
my heavy seat; the collaborator. love this stanza apart from the ambiguity of the 2nd line. maybe a period after kiss.

And I will not betray you; not sure this 'and' does you any favours in setting up the next
-and the unsaid accusation
echoes back at me-
though you would throw
our doors open, welcome soldiers
in to boot-scar stairs and pull great line though where did the soldier line come from
the walnut bureau drawers;
rummage through our things
-upturn the nothingness
of photographs and i'd suggest moving letters to this line
letters, underwear; cascade and cascade to the next, leaving underwear on it's one (italicised)
our unlived lives onto the floor-
though you would rend your shirt
at the breast, offer up your secrets
at the breast; the collaborator.

And I will not betray you; i think if you use this as a refrain, a constant use would be best.
though you whisper a tormented
past across my unworn threshold,
though you carry plastic shopping
bags that tear with the weight
of abandoned clothing from
the quiet huddle of families hidden
in the root cellars or abandoned churches;
temples, though you double up
with train-worn luggage; baggage,
and someone else's baby's shoes.

And I will not tuck my hands
under your shirt and grope
about your breasts to find more breasts?
a sack of silver or palm i'm thinking this relates to the mathias line who was a stand in for judas. that connection works really well by why is he in the poem
about your pockets when
you find my lips in front of strangers.

milo

You know, billy, anytime I can squeeze more breasts in, I usually do. (yes, that was a triple entendre). The title of the poem should have suggested the guilt that comes from a gentile in love with a Jew, but these things do not always work as planned.

Soldiers? Where do they ever come from? They always seem to be beating down my door though. Go figure.

Thanks for the help, billy.

milo

[billy]

you're welcome mio

i thought rebekka was a religious figure but wasn't sure where from, i'm not sure most people know what a gentile is which if true would make rebekka even less well known. i only know of mathias from some of my early years in a convent.
on the other hand everyone knows what race is predominantly connected to male circumcision

[milo]

well, a gentile is really anyone who isn't a jew, so I don't think it would be necessary to be familiar with the term to "get it" per se. Yah, circumcision certainly would be a way to not circumvent . .err, never mind, I was going to say something cool there but I got cut off.

anyway, I usually hit google once or twice anytime I read a poem that is worth it. Much easier these days, I remember when I had to hit the library everytime I wanted to "know" a poem.

[billy]

and so do i and many others, but in general most don't.
i'm not slating the poem, just questioning the religious aspect of it in a modern setting as something i'm struggling with.

another thing with google is this. a name in a title seldom gets googled if it's a known or common name. rebekka while jewish is also christian and in use for a lot for gentiles the world over. my sister who is a non practising C of E is also called rebekka, (becky for short)

[milo]

yah, I already agreed that it might not be coming across. I thought I included enough references to pick it up but perhaps I didn't. I can't really see how I could snip circumcision into the piece but I might have to consider it if there is not enough at the tip err . . if it gets cut off . . .hmm . . if it's a little short . . . well, whatever.

[heslopian]

You can replace my coffee cup;
the chinked and scarred
and weather-stained
remnant of our breakfast table;
the last of solitude. Excellent verse; terse and understated, like a lot of great modern poetry, in my opinion.

You can have Matthias kiss Matthias kiss? I may be too dunderhead to get a reference you're making here
my savior's blackened lips; Great line.
the sweet black of Christ's
dead lips or have him take
my heavy seat; the collaborator. The semi-colons in this verse could easily be replaced with commas, I think.

And I will not betray you; Why is there a semi-colon here when right after it comes a parenthesis marked with dashes?
-and the unsaid accusation
echoes back at me-
though you would throw
our doors open, welcome soldiers
in to boot-scar stairs and pull
the walnut bureau drawers;
rummage through our things
-upturn the nothingness
of photographs and
letters, underwear; cascade
our unlived lives onto the floor-
though you would rend your shirt
at the breast, offer up your secrets
at the breast; the collaborator. I like the structure of this verse, partly because it just feels considered and deliberate. I also enjoy parentheses.

And I will not betray you;
though you whisper a tormented
past across my unworn threshold,
though you carry plastic shopping
bags that tear with the weight
of abandoned clothing from
the quiet huddle of families hidden
in the root cellars or abandoned churches;
temples, though you double up
with train-worn luggage; baggage, By this point your use of semi-colons is starting to grate. Most of them so far could be replaced with commas, and when you do put commas among them it just calls attention to their uselessness.
and someone else's baby's shoes. This is another very good verse. I like your eye for detail and narrative.

And I will not tuck my hands
under your shirt and grope
about your breasts to find
a sack of silver or palm
about your pockets when
you find my lips in front of strangers.

milo

I'm not quite sure what this poem is literally about, but then I'm not quite sure what a lot of good poems are literally about, and I rather like idiosyncrasy and mystery. All critique is JMHO, of course, and thank you for the read

[Truerenigma]

Personally I usually feel that writing a circumcision into a poem is usually not a good idea, unless you want to strip bare all the penises.. err.. metaphors.

---

Just a personal preference. I'd rather look at breast then watch a circumcision and
most readers now days would rather just look at the breasts, they don't wanna know if the milk is sour.

[milo]

You can replace my coffee cup;
the chinked and scarred
and weather-stained
remnant of our breakfast table;
the last of solitude. Excellent verse; terse and understated, like a lot of great modern poetry, in my opinion.

You can have Matthias kiss Matthias kiss? I may be too dunderhead to get a reference you're making here
my savior's blackened lips; Great line.
the sweet black of Christ's
dead lips or have him take
my heavy seat; the collaborator. The semi-colons in this verse could easily be replaced with commas, I think.

And I will not betray you; Why is there a semi-colon here when right after it comes a parenthesis marked with dashes?
-and the unsaid accusation
echoes back at me-
though you would throw
our doors open, welcome soldiers
in to boot-scar stairs and pull
the walnut bureau drawers;
rummage through our things
-upturn the nothingness
of photographs and
letters, underwear; cascade
our unlived lives onto the floor-
though you would rend your shirt
at the breast, offer up your secrets
at the breast; the collaborator. I like the structure of this verse, partly because it just feels considered and deliberate. I also enjoy parentheses.

And I will not betray you;
though you whisper a tormented
past across my unworn threshold,
though you carry plastic shopping
bags that tear with the weight
of abandoned clothing from
the quiet huddle of families hidden
in the root cellars or abandoned churches;
temples, though you double up
with train-worn luggage; baggage, By this point your use of semi-colons is starting to grate. Most of them so far could be replaced with commas, and when you do put commas among them it just calls attention to their uselessness.
and someone else's baby's shoes. This is another very good verse. I like your eye for detail and narrative.

And I will not tuck my hands
under your shirt and grope
about your breasts to find
a sack of silver or palm
about your pockets when
you find my lips in front of strangers.

milo

I'm not quite sure what this poem is literally about, but then I'm not quite sure what a lot of good poems are literally about, and I rather like idiosyncrasy and mystery. All critique is JMHO, of course, and thank you for the read

Thanks for your insight. I think with this in mind, I may go through and re-punctuate. I think I will have to move "kiss" down a line to make it more obvious that Matthias is doing the kissing. Sometimes I enjoy the suggestions offered by enjambment but this one seems to be detracting rather than adding.

Once again, thanks.

milo

[Truerenigma]

You can replace my coffee cup;
the chinked and scarred
and weather-stained
remnant of our breakfast table;
the last of solitude. Excellent verse; terse and understated, like a lot of great modern poetry, in my opinion.

You can have Matthias kiss Matthias kiss? I may be too dunderhead to get a reference you're making here
my savior's blackened lips; Great line.
the sweet black of Christ's
dead lips or have him take
my heavy seat; the collaborator. The semi-colons in this verse could easily be replaced with commas, I think.

And I will not betray you; Why is there a semi-colon here when right after it comes a parenthesis marked with dashes?
-and the unsaid accusation
echoes back at me-
though you would throw
our doors open, welcome soldiers
in to boot-scar stairs and pull
the walnut bureau drawers;
rummage through our things
-upturn the nothingness
of photographs and
letters, underwear; cascade
our unlived lives onto the floor-
though you would rend your shirt
at the breast, offer up your secrets
at the breast; the collaborator. I like the structure of this verse, partly because it just feels considered and deliberate. I also enjoy parentheses.

And I will not betray you;
though you whisper a tormented
past across my unworn threshold,
though you carry plastic shopping
bags that tear with the weight
of abandoned clothing from
the quiet huddle of families hidden
in the root cellars or abandoned churches;
temples, though you double up
with train-worn luggage; baggage, By this point your use of semi-colons is starting to grate. Most of them so far could be replaced with commas, and when you do put commas among them it just calls attention to their uselessness.
and someone else's baby's shoes. This is another very good verse. I like your eye for detail and narrative.

And I will not tuck my hands
under your shirt and grope
about your breasts to find
a sack of silver or palm
about your pockets when
you find my lips in front of strangers.

milo

I'm not quite sure what this poem is literally about, but then I'm not quite sure what a lot of good poems are literally about, and I rather like idiosyncrasy and mystery. All critique is JMHO, of course, and thank you for the read

Thanks for your insight. I think with this in mind, I may go through and re-punctuate. I think I will have to move "kiss" down a line to make it more obvious that Matthias is doing the kissing. Sometimes I enjoy the suggestions offered by enjambment but this one seems to be detracting rather than adding.

Once again, thanks.

milo

May be a good idea, it would be different if it was "tell Matthias to kiss... " or if you put that second line in quotes, but I'm sure you'll find your own way to work it out. Obviously your not gonna wanna do either of those. Obviously.

---

You could try a comma after Matthias. Or a colon. This suggestion was meant with tell instead of have, but I actually like: You can have Matthias. Kiss my savior's blackened lips.

---

Lol. Just having fun. I love that lyric.

[Brownlie]

You can replace my coffee cup;
the chinked and scarred
and weather-stained
remnant of our breakfast table;
the last of solitude.

You can have Matthias kiss
my savior's blackened lips;
the sweet black of Christ's
dead lips or have him take
my heavy seat; the collaborator.

And I will not betray you;
-and the unsaid accusation
echoes back at me-
though you would throw
our doors open, welcome soldiers
in to boot-scar stairs and pull
the walnut bureau drawers;
rummage through our things
-upturn the nothingness
of photographs and
letters, underwear; cascade
our unlived lives onto the floor-
though you would rend your shirt
at the breast, offer up your secrets
at the breast; the collaborator.

And I will not betray you;
though you whisper a tormented
past across my unworn threshold,
though you carry plastic shopping
bags that tear with the weight
of abandoned clothing from
the quiet huddle of families hidden
in the root cellars or abandoned churches;
temples, though you double up
with train-worn luggage; baggage,
and someone else's baby's shoes.

And I will not tuck my hands
under your shirt and grope
about your breasts to find
a sack of silver or palm
about your pockets when
you find my lips in front of strangers.

milo

You do some telling here which can be shown through images. The shopping bags were a great image. If you let the reader infer some things I think you could be on to something. I don't know if this is autobiographical but truth often resonates with readers.

[milo]

You can replace my coffee cup;
the chinked and scarred
and weather-stained
remnant of our breakfast table;
the last of solitude.

You can have Matthias kiss
my savior's blackened lips;
the sweet black of Christ's
dead lips or have him take
my heavy seat; the collaborator.

And I will not betray you;
-and the unsaid accusation
echoes back at me-
though you would throw
our doors open, welcome soldiers
in to boot-scar stairs and pull
the walnut bureau drawers;
rummage through our things
-upturn the nothingness
of photographs and
letters, underwear; cascade
our unlived lives onto the floor-
though you would rend your shirt
at the breast, offer up your secrets
at the breast; the collaborator.

And I will not betray you;
though you whisper a tormented
past across my unworn threshold,
though you carry plastic shopping
bags that tear with the weight
of abandoned clothing from
the quiet huddle of families hidden
in the root cellars or abandoned churches;
temples, though you double up
with train-worn luggage; baggage,
and someone else's baby's shoes.

And I will not tuck my hands
under your shirt and grope
about your breasts to find
a sack of silver or palm
about your pockets when
you find my lips in front of strangers.

milo

You do some telling here which can be shown through images. The shopping bags were a great image. If you let the reader infer some things I think you could be on to something. I don't know if this is autobiographical but truth often resonates with readers.

I never have anything in common with any of my narrators. Give me an example of where I "tell" instead of show through images.


(you are really mining the archives here)

[Brownlie]

You can replace my coffee cup;
the chinked and scarred
and weather-stained
remnant of our breakfast table;
the last of solitude.

You can have Matthias kiss
my savior's blackened lips;
the sweet black of Christ's
dead lips or have him take
my heavy seat; the collaborator.

And I will not betray you;
-and the unsaid accusation
echoes back at me-
though you would throw
our doors open, welcome soldiers
in to boot-scar stairs and pull
the walnut bureau drawers;
rummage through our things
-upturn the nothingness
of photographs and
letters, underwear; cascade
our unlived lives onto the floor-
though you would rend your shirt
at the breast, offer up your secrets
at the breast; the collaborator.

And I will not betray you;
though you whisper a tormented
past across my unworn threshold,
though you carry plastic shopping
bags that tear with the weight
of abandoned clothing from
the quiet huddle of families hidden
in the root cellars or abandoned churches;
temples, though you double up
with train-worn luggage; baggage,
and someone else's baby's shoes.

And I will not tuck my hands
under your shirt and grope
about your breasts to find
a sack of silver or palm
about your pockets when
you find my lips in front of strangers.

milo

You do some telling here which can be shown through images. The shopping bags were a great image. If you let the reader infer some things I think you could be on to something. I don't know if this is autobiographical but truth often resonates with readers.

I never have anything in common with any of my narrators. Give me an example of where I "tell" instead of show through images.


(you are really mining the archives here)

I can't do line by line here, because I don't have a keyboard, but lines like "I will not betray you" or even word like tormented tell and not show. "Upturn the nothingness" why don't you describe the photos so the reader can make his/her own inferences. If you provide the right details the reader might empathize. Even when you refer to the coffee cup you could let physical descriptions demonstrate the metaphorical significance. After you say the cup is chinked and scarred the rest might degrade the image.

[milo]

You do some telling here which can be shown through images. The shopping bags were a great image. If you let the reader infer some things I think you could be on to something. I don't know if this is autobiographical but truth often resonates with readers.

I never have anything in common with any of my narrators. Give me an example of where I "tell" instead of show through images.


(you are really mining the archives here)

I can't do line by line here, because I don't have a keyboard, but lines like "I will not betray you" or even word like tormented tell and not show. "Upturn the nothingness" why don't you describe the photos so the reader can make his/her own inferences. If you provide the right details the reader might empathize. Even when you refer to the coffee cup you could let physical descriptions demonstrate the metaphorical significance. After you say the cup is chinked and scarred the rest might degrade the image.

I think you are confused by the old "show don't tell" mantra. It is not axiomatic, it is a suggestion to use imagery in your writing, which I am comfortable that there is here.

Lines like "I will not betray you" precede a stanza of imagery that refers back to that. You have to trust you readers to either do some of the work themselves or languish. Also, you don't wasnt to get caught up in describing every detail unless there is a symbolic significance to the central metaphor. Here, the photographs are the image and the symbolism, describing them in detail would be distracting and not add to the poem in any way.

[Brownlie]

I never have anything in common with any of my narrators. Give me an example of where I "tell" instead of show through images.


(you are really mining the archives here)

I can't do line by line here, because I don't have a keyboard, but lines like "I will not betray you" or even word like tormented tell and not show. "Upturn the nothingness" why don't you describe the photos so the reader can make his/her own inferences. If you provide the right details the reader might empathize. Even when you refer to the coffee cup you could let physical descriptions demonstrate the metaphorical significance. After you say the cup is chinked and scarred the rest might degrade the image.

I think you are confused by the old "show don't tell" mantra. It is not axiomatic, it is a suggestion to use imagery in your writing, which I am comfortable that there is here.

Lines like "I will not betray you" precede a stanza of imagery that refers back to that. You have to trust you readers to either do some of the work themselves or languish. Also, you don't wasnt to get caught up in describing every detail unless there is a symbolic significance to the central metaphor. Here, the photographs are the image and the symbolism, describing them in detail would be distracting and not add to the poem in any way.

You may have some points. Aphorisms can be mooring and dominating, but unless you think the poem is perfect, you might want to consider taking a crack at revising it. I think details can be more powerful than we think they are.

[milo]

I can't do line by line here, because I don't have a keyboard, but lines like "I will not betray you" or even word like tormented tell and not show. "Upturn the nothingness" why don't you describe the photos so the reader can make his/her own inferences. If you provide the right details the reader might empathize. Even when you refer to the coffee cup you could let physical descriptions demonstrate the metaphorical significance. After you say the cup is chinked and scarred the rest might degrade the image.

I think you are confused by the old "show don't tell" mantra. It is not axiomatic, it is a suggestion to use imagery in your writing, which I am comfortable that there is here.

Lines like "I will not betray you" precede a stanza of imagery that refers back to that. You have to trust you readers to either do some of the work themselves or languish. Also, you don't wasnt to get caught up in describing every detail unless there is a symbolic significance to the central metaphor. Here, the photographs are the image and the symbolism, describing them in detail would be distracting and not add to the poem in any way.

You may have some points. Aphorisms can be mooring and dominating, but unless you think the poem is perfect, you might want to consider taking a crack at revising it. I think details can be more powerful than we think they are.

I don't think it is perfect and I have actually done some revision since then (04/30). I just think the direction you are steering is not one that I am interested in taking it.

Bigger problems here seem to be mixed metaphors and unclear narrrative