Two For Alice (Edit #4 with punctuation)

[cidermaid]

Hi ella, i think I am finding the use of "same" has more meaning and possibly i am getting why you cannot let it go. For me the connection between the same footpring / blueprint to grow that is vital. The idea of the dreams and plans of one generation being passed on and yet somehow never materalising that forms the vital connect and flow between these two short poems. I like these as they have a slightly mystical touch in the imagery and yet it feels very plain and everyday in the story line.

I don't have any crits as such but would perhaps mention that the last three lines of the 2nd winter stanza seem lacking in the same richness as the other lines. A bit blunt perhaps, this is not a bad thing as such and it works as a stark statment of the facts...but does feel a little at odds with the rest of the work. This said I really like what you have done here.
Thanks for the read and some great editing work.
AJ.

edit #3

Winter

your empty house sits
snuggled in its same footprint
porches forming wings
ready to take off across
the lake's icy reflection

half glassed for winter
half screened to catch summer's breeze
your home held your soul
cradled it during your stay
released it to soar in joy


Spring

Alice's daughter
has planted mom's favorites
in window boxes
her mother's home wakes from sleep
grandchildren wade the shoreline

counting her pennies
to buy what she can't let go
she clears the hallways
blueprints drawn for room to grow
still red geraniums bloom

[ellajam]

Hi ella, i think I am finding the use of "same" has more meaning and possibly i am getting why you cannot let it go. For me the connection between the same footpring / blueprint to grow that is vital. The idea of the dreams and plans of one generation being passed on and yet somehow never materalising that forms the vital connect and flow between these two short poems. I like these as they have a slightly mystical touch in the imagery and yet it feels very plain and everyday in the story line.

I don't have any crits as such but would perhaps mention that the last three lines of the 2nd winter stanza seem lacking in the same richness as the other lines. A bit blunt perhaps, this is not a bad thing as such and it works as a stark statment of the facts...but does feel a little at odds with the rest of the work. This said I really like what you have done here.
Thanks for the read and some great editing work.
AJ.

edit #3

Winter

your empty house sits
snuggled in its same footprint
porches forming wings
ready to take off across
the lake's icy reflection

half glassed for winter
half screened to catch summer's breeze
your home held your soul
cradled it during your stay
released it to soar in joy


Spring

Alice's daughter
has planted mom's favorites
in window boxes
her mother's home wakes from sleep
grandchildren wade the shoreline

counting her pennies
to buy what she can't let go
she clears the hallways
blueprints drawn for room to grow
still red geraniums bloom

Thanks, Queen of Apples, I haven't touched those three lines yet, I feel edit#4 coming on.

[ellajam]

edit #4:

I've done some work on Spring hoping to address some of the issues all of you have been so kind to point out. All comments are welcomed. Any thoughts on whether or not this needs punctuation?

Thanks so much for all the help I've gotten with this.

[tectak]

edit #4

Winter

your empty house sits
snuggled in its same footprintmaybe drop the "same". Sme as what? The other foot?
porches forming wings
ready to take off across
the lake's icy reflectionVery gentle and sensitive imagery but beware of the crit's glass-eye. Is it the reflection OF the lake? No. Is it the reflection IN the lake. Yes, I think so. Better to say which or you are covering the wrong eye

half glassed for winter
half screened to catch summer's breeze
your home sang your soul
cradled it during your stay
released it to soar in joyThis is really a very subtle cover-up of tiny failings....and it probably doesn't really matter. The punctuation is inconsistent and that irks. The "it", though obviously referencing your "soul", gives choice a foothold BECAUSE of the punctuation sparsity...and that flicker of indecision makes me fear a fall. As always, you do not NEED to punctuate....but I never read a poem that was improved by the ommission...though I have read many made worse by the inclusion.


Spring

red geraniums
christen April's first boat ride
Alice's daughter
wakes her mother's home from sleep
grandchildren wade the shoreline

counting her pennies
to buy what she can't let go
she clears the hallways
blueprints drawn for room to grow
mom's favorites replantedYes. It is now too little too late. Punctuate to clarity. This is a very sweet piece that you damage by the gentlest of ill-treatment.
This is me liking it very much. You have a good train of thought but you ignore all the signals at your peril. Red, amber, green. Period, semi colon, comma.
Best,
tectak


edit #3

Winter

your empty house sits
snuggled in its same footprint
porches forming wings
ready to take off across
the lake's icy reflection

half glassed for winter
half screened to catch summer's breeze
your home held your soul
cradled it during your stay
released it to soar in joy


Spring

Alice's daughter
has planted mom's favorites
in window boxes
her mother's home wakes from sleep
grandchildren wade the shoreline

counting her pennies
to buy what she can't let go
she clears the hallways
blueprints drawn for room to grow
still red geraniums bloom

Edit #2

Edit #2

Winter

your empty house sits
snuggled in its same footprint
porches forming wings
as if it could glide across
the lake's icy reflection

half glassed for winter
half screened to catch summer's breeze
your home held your soul
cradled it during your stay
released it to soar in joy


Spring

Alice's daughter
has planted geraniums
in window boxes
her mother's home wakes from sleep
grandchildren wade the shoreline

counting her pennies
to buy what she can't let go
she clears the hallways
blueprints drawn for room to grow
but replants mom's best loved blooms
---------------------------------
(I've considered the word "same" in L2 and can't seem to let it go. I haven't figured out why it doesn't come across when it seems vital to me. hhhmmmm)
--------------------------------

Edit #1

Winter

your empty house sits
snuggled in its same footprint
porches forming wings
as if it could glide across
the lake's icy reflection

half glassed for winter
half screened to catch summer's breeze
your home held your soul
cradled it during your stay
released it to soar in joy


Spring

Alice's daughter
has planted geraniums
in window boxes
her mother's home wakes from sleep
grandchildren wade the shoreline

counting her pennies
to buy what she can't let go
the house becomes hers
changing it to suit herself
she retains mom's best loved blooms

-------------
(meh, unsure, any thoughts?)

------------


Original

Winter

your empty house sits
snuggled in its same footprint
porches forming wings
as if it could glide across
the lake's reflection, soaring

half glassed for winter
half screened to catch summer's breeze
your home held your soul
cradled it during your stay
released it to soar in joy


Spring

Alice's daughter
has planted geraniums
in window boxes
her mother's home wakes from sleep
great-grandchildren wade the shore

counting her pennies
to buy what she can't let go
Alice's daughter
breathes new life into the void
replanting mom's favorites

[ellajam]

The Same Dilemma

The opening lines are

your empty house sits
snuggled in its same footprint

I am using the word same as unchanged, but judging by the consistent objections by readers this is not coming across.

I am reluctant to change this too much, I thinks it's important to the poem and I love it. I am also committed to retaining the 5,7,5,7,7 format, I think something would be lost if I abandoned it.

The only thing I can come up with is

your empty house sits
snuggled in its set footprint

Any opinion on whether or not this is just confusing in another way?

[tectak]

The Same Dilemma

The opening lines are

your empty house sits
snuggled in its same footprint

I am using the word same as unchanged, but judging by the consistent objections by readers this is not coming across.

I am reluctant to change this too much, I thinks it's important to the poem and I love it. I am also committed to retaining the 5,7,5,7,7 format, I think something would be lost if I abandoned it.

The only thing I can come up with is

your empty house sits
snuggled in its set footprint

Any opinion on whether or not this is just confusing in another way?

You are confusing confusion with over-precision! It is not for you to decide how your readers are confused, that is down to them The point, anyway, is not that we are confused by the choice of word, but that we were over informed by it. The addition of ANY durationally descriptive word before footprint (a static entity if ever there was one!) in the sentence is tautological.
Best,
tectak

[ellajam]

The Same Dilemma

The opening lines are

your empty house sits
snuggled in its same footprint

I am using the word same as unchanged, but judging by the consistent objections by readers this is not coming across.

I am reluctant to change this too much, I thinks it's important to the poem and I love it. I am also committed to retaining the 5,7,5,7,7 format, I think something would be lost if I abandoned it.

The only thing I can come up with is

your empty house sits
snuggled in its set footprint

Any opinion on whether or not this is just confusing in another way?

You are confusing confusion with over-precision! It is not for you to decide how your readers are confused, that is down to them The point, anyway, is not that we are confused by the choice of word, but that we were over informed by it. The addition of ANY durationally descriptive word before footprint (a static entity if ever there was one!) in the sentence is tautological.
Best,
tectak

Where I live, when rebuilding a house you need to maintain the same footprint in order to be exempt from current property size codes. This was actually done to the house in the poem, razed and rebuilt without any change in its footprint.

I don't know if this matters when I am the only one thinking of it this way, but yes, a footprint can change.

[tectak]

The Same Dilemma

The opening lines are

your empty house sits
snuggled in its same footprint

I am using the word same as unchanged, but judging by the consistent objections by readers this is not coming across.

I am reluctant to change this too much, I thinks it's important to the poem and I love it. I am also committed to retaining the 5,7,5,7,7 format, I think something would be lost if I abandoned it.

The only thing I can come up with is

your empty house sits
snuggled in its set footprint

Any opinion on whether or not this is just confusing in another way?

You are confusing confusion with over-precision! It is not for you to decide how your readers are confused, that is down to them The point, anyway, is not that we are confused by the choice of word, but that we were over informed by it. The addition of ANY durationally descriptive word before footprint (a static entity if ever there was one!) in the sentence is tautological.
Best,
tectak

Where I live, when rebuilding a house you need to maintain the same footprint in order to be exempt from current property size codes. This was actually done to the house in the poem, razed and rebuilt without any change in its footprint.

I don't know if this matters when I am the only one thinking of it this way, but yes, a footprint can change.

Yes. Of course it can....but then it is a different footprint...so until it changes it is tautological to say it is the same.
Best,
tectak

[ellajam]

My path through tectak's notes:

Punctuation for edit#4

Winter

Your empty house sits,
snuggled in its same footprint,
porches forming wings
ready to take off across
the lake's icy reflection.

Half glassed for winter,
half screened to catch summer's breeze,
your home sang your soul:
cradled it during your stay,
released it to soar in joy.


Spring

Red geraniums
christen April's first boat ride;
Alice's daughter
wakes her mother's home from sleep,
grandchildren wade the shoreline.

Counting her pennies
to buy what she can't let go,
she clears the hallways,
blueprints drawn for room to grow,
mom's favorites replanted.

Clarifying L5

Your empty house sits,
snuggled in its same footprint,
porches forming wings
ready to take off across
the lake's reflective thin ice.

While this clarifies, I'm not sure I haven't lost something here.


The dreaded, dreadful Same

I tried this:

Your empty house stands
firm, snuggled in its footprint,
porches forming wings
ready to take off across
the lake's reflective thin ice.

then this:


Your empty house sits
still snuggled in its footprint
porches forming wings
ready to take off across
the lake's reflective thin ice

I like "still" because it can work as "sits still" or "still snuggled", but only if I remove the punctuation. Aaaarrrgghh. Good thing there's no deadline.

I want to thank again each one who commented in any way. I consider your notes with each edit, a huge help.

[Todd]

The punctuation is a welcome change. Just weighing in with an opinion on the other two changes.

L5: I like the phrasing of the original.

Same/still: I like same. If you were to change it. I favor something like this (for your consideration).

Your empty house sits still
snuggled in its footprint

Just a thought to confuse matters more.

[ellajam]

The punctuation is a welcome change. Just weighing in with an opinion on the other two changes.

L5: I like the phrasing of the original.

Same/still: I like same. If you were to change it. I favor something like this (for your consideration).

Your empty house sits still
snuggled in its footprint

Just a thought to confuse matters more.

Thanks for reading and for your opinions, Todd. Confused? Over-editing? Who me?

[tectak]

edit #4

Winter

your empty house sits
snuggled in its same footprint
porches forming wings
ready to take off across
the lake's icy reflection

half glassed for winter
half screened to catch summer's breeze
your home sang your soul
cradled it during your stay
released it to soar in joy


Spring

red geraniums
christen April's first boat ride
Alice's daughter
wakes her mother's home from sleep
grandchildren wade the shoreline

counting her pennies
to buy what she can't let go
she clears the hallways
blueprints drawn for room to grow
mom's favorites replanted


edit #3

Winter

your empty house sits
snuggled in its same footprint
porches forming wings
ready to take off across
the lake's icy reflection

half glassed for winter
half screened to catch summer's breeze
your home held your soul
cradled it during your stay
released it to soar in joy


Spring

Alice's daughter
has planted mom's favorites
in window boxes
her mother's home wakes from sleep
grandchildren wade the shoreline

counting her pennies
to buy what she can't let go
she clears the hallways
blueprints drawn for room to grow
still red geraniums bloom

Edit #2

Edit #2

Winter

your empty house sits
snuggled in its same footprint
porches forming wings
as if it could glide across
the lake's icy reflection

half glassed for winter
half screened to catch summer's breeze
your home held your soul
cradled it during your stay
released it to soar in joy


Spring

Alice's daughter
has planted geraniums
in window boxes
her mother's home wakes from sleep
grandchildren wade the shoreline

counting her pennies
to buy what she can't let go
she clears the hallways
blueprints drawn for room to grow
but replants mom's best loved blooms
---------------------------------
(I've considered the word "same" in L2 and can't seem to let it go. I haven't figured out why it doesn't come across when it seems vital to me. hhhmmmm)
--------------------------------

Edit #1

Winter

your empty house sits
snuggled in its same footprint
porches forming wings
as if it could glide across
the lake's icy reflection

half glassed for winter
half screened to catch summer's breeze
your home held your soul
cradled it during your stay
released it to soar in joy


Spring

Alice's daughter
has planted geraniums
in window boxes
her mother's home wakes from sleep
grandchildren wade the shoreline

counting her pennies
to buy what she can't let go
the house becomes hers
changing it to suit herself
she retains mom's best loved blooms

-------------
(meh, unsure, any thoughts?)

------------


Original

Winter

your empty house sits
snuggled in its same footprint
porches forming wings
as if it could glide across
the lake's reflection, soaring

half glassed for winter
half screened to catch summer's breeze
your home held your soul
cradled it during your stay
released it to soar in joy


Spring

Alice's daughter
has planted geraniums
in window boxes
her mother's home wakes from sleep
great-grandchildren wade the shore

counting her pennies
to buy what she can't let go
Alice's daughter
breathes new life into the void
replanting mom's favorites

Hi ella,
I admire your tenacity and understand your methodology in editing. There is room, I hope, to disagree with you on several points...but this is your poem and it has more merit than mediocrity...and that is what makes poetry live.
You have gone without punctuation and that is genre-generic. Many take this route. One could argue that it is an easy way out. After all, punctuation takes some knowledge a priori...to not use it requires nothing but a belief in the genre. The piece is edited to a level. Nothing you can do now will increase the aggregate pleasure of you AND the crits. Leave it alone. Read it in 3 or 4 years. See how you feel then.
I once gave up semi colons for a year...ellipses were my methadone! I got hooked.
Best and well done,
tectak

[ellajam]

edit #4

Winter

your empty house sits
snuggled in its same footprint
porches forming wings
ready to take off across
the lake's icy reflection

half glassed for winter
half screened to catch summer's breeze
your home sang your soul
cradled it during your stay
released it to soar in joy


Spring

red geraniums
christen April's first boat ride
Alice's daughter
wakes her mother's home from sleep
grandchildren wade the shoreline

counting her pennies
to buy what she can't let go
she clears the hallways
blueprints drawn for room to grow
mom's favorites replanted


edit #3

Winter

your empty house sits
snuggled in its same footprint
porches forming wings
ready to take off across
the lake's icy reflection

half glassed for winter
half screened to catch summer's breeze
your home held your soul
cradled it during your stay
released it to soar in joy


Spring

Alice's daughter
has planted mom's favorites
in window boxes
her mother's home wakes from sleep
grandchildren wade the shoreline

counting her pennies
to buy what she can't let go
she clears the hallways
blueprints drawn for room to grow
still red geraniums bloom

Edit #2

Edit #2

Winter

your empty house sits
snuggled in its same footprint
porches forming wings
as if it could glide across
the lake's icy reflection

half glassed for winter
half screened to catch summer's breeze
your home held your soul
cradled it during your stay
released it to soar in joy


Spring

Alice's daughter
has planted geraniums
in window boxes
her mother's home wakes from sleep
grandchildren wade the shoreline

counting her pennies
to buy what she can't let go
she clears the hallways
blueprints drawn for room to grow
but replants mom's best loved blooms
---------------------------------
(I've considered the word "same" in L2 and can't seem to let it go. I haven't figured out why it doesn't come across when it seems vital to me. hhhmmmm)
--------------------------------

Edit #1

Winter

your empty house sits
snuggled in its same footprint
porches forming wings
as if it could glide across
the lake's icy reflection

half glassed for winter
half screened to catch summer's breeze
your home held your soul
cradled it during your stay
released it to soar in joy


Spring

Alice's daughter
has planted geraniums
in window boxes
her mother's home wakes from sleep
grandchildren wade the shoreline

counting her pennies
to buy what she can't let go
the house becomes hers
changing it to suit herself
she retains mom's best loved blooms

-------------
(meh, unsure, any thoughts?)

------------


Original

Winter

your empty house sits
snuggled in its same footprint
porches forming wings
as if it could glide across
the lake's reflection, soaring

half glassed for winter
half screened to catch summer's breeze
your home held your soul
cradled it during your stay
released it to soar in joy


Spring

Alice's daughter
has planted geraniums
in window boxes
her mother's home wakes from sleep
great-grandchildren wade the shore

counting her pennies
to buy what she can't let go
Alice's daughter
breathes new life into the void
replanting mom's favorites

Hi ella,
I admire your tenacity and understand your methodology in editing. There is room, I hope, to disagree with you on several points...but this is your poem and it has more merit than mediocrity...and that is what makes poetry live.
You have gone without punctuation and that is genre-generic. Many take this route. One could argue that it is an easy way out. After all, punctuation takes some knowledge a priori...to not use it requires nothing but a belief in the genre. The piece is edited to a level. Nothing you can do now will increase the aggregate pleasure of you AND the crits. Leave it alone. Read it in 3 or 4 years. See how you feel then.
I once gave up semi colons for a year...ellipses were my methadone! I got hooked.
Best and well done,
tectak

Okay, I'll stop obsessing. My final edit for now is with the punctuation. I think it adds to the poem and hopefully doesn't take anything away.

I so appreciate the magnifying glass you have put in place for me, and I'm enjoying the changes occuring as I edit and punctuate other poems.

Thanks so much for your help.

[tectak]

edit #4

Winter

your empty house sits
snuggled in its same footprint
porches forming wings
ready to take off across
the lake's icy reflection

half glassed for winter
half screened to catch summer's breeze
your home sang your soul
cradled it during your stay
released it to soar in joy


Spring

red geraniums
christen April's first boat ride
Alice's daughter
wakes her mother's home from sleep
grandchildren wade the shoreline

counting her pennies
to buy what she can't let go
she clears the hallways
blueprints drawn for room to grow
mom's favorites replanted


edit #3

Winter

your empty house sits
snuggled in its same footprint
porches forming wings
ready to take off across
the lake's icy reflection

half glassed for winter
half screened to catch summer's breeze
your home held your soul
cradled it during your stay
released it to soar in joy


Spring

Alice's daughter
has planted mom's favorites
in window boxes
her mother's home wakes from sleep
grandchildren wade the shoreline

counting her pennies
to buy what she can't let go
she clears the hallways
blueprints drawn for room to grow
still red geraniums bloom

Edit #2

Edit #2

Winter

your empty house sits
snuggled in its same footprint
porches forming wings
as if it could glide across
the lake's icy reflection

half glassed for winter
half screened to catch summer's breeze
your home held your soul
cradled it during your stay
released it to soar in joy


Spring

Alice's daughter
has planted geraniums
in window boxes
her mother's home wakes from sleep
grandchildren wade the shoreline

counting her pennies
to buy what she can't let go
she clears the hallways
blueprints drawn for room to grow
but replants mom's best loved blooms
---------------------------------
(I've considered the word "same" in L2 and can't seem to let it go. I haven't figured out why it doesn't come across when it seems vital to me. hhhmmmm)
--------------------------------

Edit #1

Winter

your empty house sits
snuggled in its same footprint
porches forming wings
as if it could glide across
the lake's icy reflection

half glassed for winter
half screened to catch summer's breeze
your home held your soul
cradled it during your stay
released it to soar in joy


Spring

Alice's daughter
has planted geraniums
in window boxes
her mother's home wakes from sleep
grandchildren wade the shoreline

counting her pennies
to buy what she can't let go
the house becomes hers
changing it to suit herself
she retains mom's best loved blooms

-------------
(meh, unsure, any thoughts?)

------------


Original

Winter

your empty house sits
snuggled in its same footprint
porches forming wings
as if it could glide across
the lake's reflection, soaring

half glassed for winter
half screened to catch summer's breeze
your home held your soul
cradled it during your stay
released it to soar in joy


Spring

Alice's daughter
has planted geraniums
in window boxes
her mother's home wakes from sleep
great-grandchildren wade the shore

counting her pennies
to buy what she can't let go
Alice's daughter
breathes new life into the void
replanting mom's favorites

Hi ella,
I admire your tenacity and understand your methodology in editing. There is room, I hope, to disagree with you on several points...but this is your poem and it has more merit than mediocrity...and that is what makes poetry live.
You have gone without punctuation and that is genre-generic. Many take this route. One could argue that it is an easy way out. After all, punctuation takes some knowledge a priori...to not use it requires nothing but a belief in the genre. The piece is edited to a level. Nothing you can do now will increase the aggregate pleasure of you AND the crits. Leave it alone. Read it in 3 or 4 years. See how you feel then.
I once gave up semi colons for a year...ellipses were my methadone! I got hooked.
Best and well done,
tectak

Okay, I'll stop obsessing. My final edit for now is with the punctuation. I think it adds to the poem and hopefully doesn't take anything away.

I so appreciate the magnifying glass you have put in place for me, and I'm enjoying the changes occuring as I edit and punctuate other poems.

Thanks so much for your help.

Excellent final edit...I would say that, though!
Best,
tectak

[ellajam]

Not all your points were addressed.

[tectak]

Not all your points were addressed.

Oh yes they were! But you didn't agree with them all...to your credit
Best,
tectak

[yourfellowhuman]

This is my first ever reply on this forum and I must say stuff like this is why I chose to join in the first place. I can't honestly give too much feedback on grammar and such (cause I kind of suck at it) but I can speak to how I'm affected and inspired by a piece. First of all I really enjoyed the duality represented by winter/spring and how the winter portion is not stereotypically cold or sad, there's more of a feeling of expectation of the coming warmth; the new life that spring breeds. Generally, I get a transitive feeling, the kind of universal boomerang where things come and go; especially from the lines "mom's favorites replanted" and "counting her pennies to buy what she can't let go". Overall, a wonderful poem!

[ellajam]

This is my first ever reply on this forum and I must say stuff like this is why I chose to join in the first place. I can't honestly give too much feedback on grammar and such (cause I kind of suck at it) but I can speak to how I'm affected and inspired by a piece. First of all I really enjoyed the duality represented by winter/spring and how the winter portion is not stereotypically cold or sad, there's more of a feeling of expectation of the coming warmth; the new life that spring breeds. Generally, I get a transitive feeling, the kind of universal boomerang where things come and go; especially from the lines "mom's favorites replanted" and "counting her pennies to buy what she can't let go". Overall, a wonderful poem!

Welcome, human,

I'm glad you enjoyed it, it was really fun to edit it here.

I'm learning to critique here too, and my grammar is improving, slooowly. Just jump in, if something strikes you as good or as off, let the poet know. Like anything else, you have to do it to learn it.

Thanks for your comments.

[Canaan McGee]

undefined

[ellajam]

undefined

Welcome, Canaan.

Could you elaborate?