The Doctrine Pedlar -edited
#1
2nd Edit ( with thanks to Leanne)

HE:
I've come to sell you God Madam - He's in this Magazine.
I came here on a Bicycle, I'm really very Keen.

SHE:
So you would sell me God would you, well really, aren't you sweet!
Come in for some refreshments dear, and rest your tired feet.

HE:
Just let me park the Bicycle my Church has lent to me;
I'm on it all the time now and it's Really Splendid, see!

SHE:
Oh isn't mankind clever to have made such a contraption
That takes one's feet right off the ground - no circumambulation
Allowed when one has such a thing to carry one around!
I like to keep my own feet planted firmly on the ground.

Come in, Religious Caller, do come in for morning tea
And have a glass of water and a little chat with me -
I'm just a crazy lady who no longer rides a bike,
And go on, put the pamphlets there between us if you like.

So you would sell me God would you? The Grail as Magazine?
Do sit down on the sofa while I find a glass that's clean.
I know my knowledge of the Lord's a tiny speck of dust
So are you then a genius to say that you have Him sussed?

HE:
I'm proud to say that I know God much better that my peers -
I've Memorized the Doctrine and I've Studied hard for years!
I can Recite a dozen Prayers (and some of them in Verse)
And with Somebody Else's Words I'm happy to converse.

I know all the Old Testament, especially all the Rules,
And all the Pat Responses for the Unbelieving Fools.
My Church will have a Brochure that says what is Wrong with yours,
You’ll have no further need for Guilt, we'll tell you all your Flaws.

And we can make you Holy with this Weekly Magazine
And nobody would ever guess the Sinner you have been.
It may sound quite Exclusive, it might sound a little odd,
But I confirm it Madam: we've the Copyright on God!

SHE:
Well I confess that I'm a fool, I barely know my Lord,
Although I too have read some books that hail from abroad.
I rarely get around to prayer, and surely not in rhyme;
We never get the chance because we're talking all the time.
You've memorized Leviticus, I know the Song Of Songs
And you know Him and I know Him and both of us are wrong.

I don't believe your doctrine can confine The Boundless One...
You seem to be believing that's just what your church has done-
So here dear, have a cupcake, for a year you'll need not eat,
Because inside that cupcake is a paddockful of wheat!
Here's your glass of water, you can drink it in a minute,
Careful how you hold it for I put an ocean in it!
And do look out this window here and tell me if you see
Like I do when I look through the entire galaxy?

HE:
You did say you were Crazy- but I thought it was in jest!
And I've got Other Calls to make, I'll let you have a rest.
If you have any Questions I can bring an Elder and
He'll Explain about my Faith what I don't understand
His Bike is just like mine and he's been riding it for years
His holds loads more Pamphlets and he's better at the gears!

So read those Magazines and I'll bring more in a fortnight;
If you Subscribe as I do then you ought to be alright.
Telephone me if you want to join the Congregation-
Goodbye Madam, God Bless, thank you for the Conversation.


SHE:
Oh Witness Lord, the borrowed bike and hear the tinny bell!
Behold the Doctrine Pedlar who would save my soul from hell!
Oh look he's off already when we'd only just begun -
Come help me with this jigsaw then and have a bit of fun!

For You're a jigsaw puzzle that not one of us can solve;
Each person holds the merest piece and thinks he has the whole!
A vast eternal jigsaw with innumerable parts
Surpassing all the Golden Calves you find in human hearts!
Oh who knows You but You alone? Come sit down here with me,
I’m glad that pedlar’s gone for I prefer Your company!






1st Edit
The Doctrine Pedlar

HE:
I've Come to sell you God Madam - He's in this Magazine.
I came here on a Bicycle, I'm really very Keen.

SHE:
So you would sell me God would you, well really, aren't you sweet!
Come in for some refreshments dear, and rest your tired feet.

HE:
Just let me park the Bicycle my Church has lent to me;
I'm on it all the time now and it's Really Splendid, see!

SHE:
Oh isn't mankind clever to make such a contraption
That takes one's feet off the ground - no circumambulation
Allowed when one has such a thing to carry one around!
I like to keep my own feet planted firmly on the ground.

Come in, Religious Caller, do come in for morning tea
And have a glass of water and a little chat with me -
Just a crazy old woman who no longer rides a bike,
And go on, put the pamphlets there between us if you like.

So you would sell me God would you? The Grail as Magazine?
Do sit down on the sofa while I find a glass that's clean.
I know my knowledge of Him is a tiny speck of dust
So are you then a genius to say that you have Him sussed?

HE:
I'm Proud to say that I know God much better that my Peers -
All my Church's Publications I've Studied hard for Years!
I can Recite a dozen Prayers (and some of them in Verse)
And with Somebody Elses's Words we once a day Converse.

I know all the Old Testament, Especially all the Rules,
And all the Pat Responses for the Unbelieving Fools.
My Church will have a Brochure that says what is Wrong with Yours,
You’ll no longer need your guilt for we'll tell you all your Flaws.

And We can make you Holy with this Weekly Magazine
And Nobody would ever guess the Sinner you have been.
It may sound to you Exclusive, may sound a little Odd,
But I confirm it Madam, We've the Copyright on God!

SHE:
Well I confess that I'm a fool, I barely know my Lord,
Although I too have read some books that hail from abroad.
I rarely get around to prayer, certainly not in rhyme;
We never get the chance because we're talking all the time.
You've memorized Leviticus, I know the Song Of Songs
And you know Him and I know Him and both of us are wrong.

I don't believe your doctrine can confine The Boundless One...
You seem to be believing that is what your church has done-
So here dear, have a cupcake, for a year you'll need not eat,
Because inside that cupcake is a paddockful of wheat!
Here's your glass of water, you can drink it in a minute,
Careful how you hold it for I put an ocean in it!
And do look out this window here and tell me if you see
Like I do when I look through the entire galaxy?

HE:
You Did say you were Crazy- but I thought it was in Jest!
And I've got other Calls to Make, I'll let you have a Rest.
But if you've got any Questions I can bring an Elder and
He will Explain about my Faith what I don't Understand
He's got a Bike just like mine! He's been Riding it for Years
And places lots of Pamphlets 'cause he's Better at the Gears.

So read those Magazines and I'll bring more in a Fortnight;
If you Subscribe as I do then you ought to be alright.
You can Phone me if you want to join the Congregation-
Goodbye Madam, God Bless, thank you for the Conversation.


SHE:
Oh Witness Lord, the borrowed bike and hear the tinny bell!
Behold the Doctrine Pedlar that would save my soul from hell!
Oh look he's off already when we'd only just begun -
Come help me with the jigsaw then and have a bit of fun!

For You're a jigsaw puzzle that not one of us can solve;
And each one holds the merest piece and thinks he has the whole!
A vast eternal jigsaw with innumerable parts
Surpassing all the Golden Calves you find in human hearts!
Oh who knows You but You alone? Come sit down here with me,
I’m glad that pedlar’s gone for I prefer Your company!


Original

The Doctrine Pedlar

HE:
I've Come to sell you God Madam - He's in this Magazine.
I came here on a Bicycle, I'm really very Keen.

SHE:
So you would sell me God would you, well really, aren't you sweet!
Come in for some refreshments dear, and rest your tired feet.

HE:
Just let me park the Bicycle my Church has lent to me;
I'm on it all the time now and it's Really Splendid, see!

SHE:
Oh isn't mankind clever to make such a contraption
That takes one's feet clear off the ground - no circumambulation
Allowed when one has such a thing to carry one around!
You could almost give up thinking with such a bell to sound!

Come in, Religious Caller, do come in and have a cake
And have a glass of water and some conversation make
With a crazy old woman who no longer rides a bike,
And go on, put the pamphlets there between us if you like.

So you would sell me God would you? The Grail as Magazine?
Do sit down on the sofa while I find a glass that's clean.
I know my knowledge of Him is a tiny speck of dust
So are you then a genius to say you have Him sussed?

HE:
I'm Proud to say that I know God much better that my Peers -
All my Church's Publications I've Studied hard for Years!
I can Recite a dozen Prayers (and some of them in Verse)
And with Somebody Elses's Words we once a day Converse.

I know lots of the Old Testament, Especially all the Rules,
And all the Pat Responses for the Unbelieving Fools.
My Church will have a Brochure to say what is Wrong with Yours,
You no longer need a conscience for We'll tell you all your Flaws.

And We can make you Holy with this Weekly Magazine
And Nobody would ever guess the Sinner you have been.
It may sound to you Exclusive, it may sound a little Odd,
But I confirm it Madam, We've the Copyright on God!

SHE:
Well I confess that I'm a fool, I barely know my Lord,
Although I too have read some books that hail from abroad.
I rarely get around to prayer, especially not in rhyme;
We never get the chance because we're talking all the time.
You've memorized Leviticus, I know the Song Of Songs
And you know Him and I know Him and both of us are wrong.

I don't believe your doctrine can confine The Boundless One...
And I'd rather not fellowship with petty quarrel numb -
So here dear, have a cupcake, for a year you'll need not eat,
Because inside that cupcake is a paddockful of wheat!
Here's your glass of water, you can drink it in a minute,
Careful how you hold it for I put an ocean in it!
And do look out this window here and tell me if you see
Like I do when I look through it the entire galaxy?

HE:
You Did say you were Crazy but I thought it was in Jest!
And I've got other Calls to Make, I'll let you have a Rest.
But if you've got any Questions I can bring an Elder and
He'll Explain about my Faith what I don't Understand
He's got a Bike just like mine! He's been Riding it for Years
And places lots of Pamphlets 'cause he's Better at the Gears.

So read those Magazines and I'll bring more in a Fortnight;
If you Subscribe as I do then you'll Probably be alright.
Oh and do you like my New Shoes? They're made of Crocodile!
Goodbye Madam, God Bless you and I'll see you in a While.

SHE:
Oh Witness Lord, the borrowed bike and hear the tinny bell!
Behold the Doctrine Pedlar that would save my soul from hell!
Oh look he's off already when we'd only just begun -
Come help me with the jigsaw then and have a bit of fun!

For You're a jigsaw puzzle that not one of us can solve;
And each one holds the merest piece and thinks he has the whole!
A vast eternal jigsaw with innumerable parts
Surpassing all the Golden Calves you find in human hearts!
Oh who knows You but You alone? Come sit down here with me,
These magazines will fuel the fire and we'll have veal for tea!
Reply
#2
That is incredible, the story is original and entertaining with deep spiritual iimplications. I've always expressed tthat the gid I believe in is too big to fit in a book. I'm new to critiquing poetry, so I may be confused about some of the rules, if I understand correctly though, it is not necessary for the words to rhyme in a narrative. It seems like you tried to do just that, and came extremely close, most of it fits and flows wit the conversation nicely, some of it like "contraption and circumambulation" the later sounds awkward against the former when all they share is the "tion"sound. "Yours" and "flaws" as well as "lord" and "abroad" these are somewhat close in their sound, though not enough to rhyme, and while it may not be necessary to rhyme, coming close to it while surrounded by lines that do, make the lines seem to flop.

Aside from the concept as a whole, there were some lines I thoroughly enjoyed. The two lines that ended "we have a copyright on God" and the ones that ended in "all the Golden Calves you find in human hearts" personally I found that to be a master stroke. Great poem!
Reply
#3
hello JakMak - thanks for commenting. I agree with you about how a true rhyme is preferable to a half rhyme. It could just be my Aussie accent but when I say them flaws and yours rhyme, as do lord and abroad - oh well. As for contraption and circumambulation, well i dunno. I'm pretty sure the meters wrong there too.

I rhymed this poem for a more humorous effect - don't know how well that's turned out but that was the intent.

I'm glad you liked it - thanks once again for commenting.
Reply
#4
Lol I didn't take accents into account
Reply
#5
Great job, this was quite a good read. I thought that not only did this poem have a great rhythm going but you managed to maintain both the rhyme and rhythm while illustrating an entertaining story that also delivers a great message. I would point out a favorite line but I'm having a hard time doing that because I enjoyed the whole thing, but I liked how you wrapped things up in the last stanza
Reply
#6
hello Blake - thanks for reading and commenting - I'm glad you found it entertaining.
Reply
#7
They rhyme in my accent too Wink

I enjoyed this quite a bit, and although it could benefit from an edit for purposes of meter it does mostly bounce along with a good solid rhythm. There are some wonderful profundities and the characterisations are nicely done. I'm not sure if it's just me, but that last stanza does sound quite a bit like the old lady's a cannibal...

hmm.

Enjoyed, thank you.

PS Love the pun in the title Big Grin
It could be worse
Reply
#8
Ballad meter with the iambic tetrameter line and iambic trimeter line combine into one seven foot line, with rhyming couplets.

There are a few lines that seem a bit off like:

L4 If you read "tired" as a diphthong like tie-erd, with the stress on the "tie" it works, if as single syllable as we do in Texas "tard" it doesn't. As Australia is larger than my country of Texas, I'll give the "tie" to you. Smile

-and-

L18 "So are you then a genius to say you have Him sussed?"

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

L19 "I'm Proud to say that I know God much better that my Peers -" "than" not "that"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I enjoyed the rhyme of circumambulation and contraption, plus the double entendre in circumambulation.

I think less a witch/cannibal and more an angel (although at points she does seem ceeepy, but maybe she is just otherworldly). That is over looking the fact that she may be as she presents herself, simply crazy, and the point is even a crazy lady has more sense than a "Doctrine Pedlar". I see the veal, which with several other things seems a bit ad hoc, either for meter or rhyme, so I think more that than an indication of cannibalism. If it were a religious pun, it would need to be mutton as in the phrase. "like lambs to the slaughter." even granting the golden calf statement "Surpassing all the Golden Calves you find in human hearts!".

However, I too would be interested in the "veal for tea" comment as to me it is nonsensical, although I am unsure if "veal for tea" means the same as "veal with tea:, even so...


Dale
How long after picking up the brush, the first masterpiece?

The goal is not to obfuscate that which is clear, but make clear that which isn't.
Reply
#9
You poor Americans never get the tea thing -- tea is a meal, not just a drink.

Here it's just another word for dinner, or it can be morning/afternoon tea.
It could be worse
Reply
#10
Well that's a bit more enlightening. Don't be too hard on me for not knowing your bizarre customs, I am the only one I know who drinks hot tea with cream and sugar. The only tea people drink here is "ice tea". It is of course not "ice tea", but "iced tea", but "ice tea" is how it is pronounced, it is even written that way on the boxes of tea bags.

Is Moffette going to arise and give us visions, or do we just wait here alone with the rest of the veal? Oh wait, it's Mopkins, isn't it? Meaning a small person who mops I suppose. I am more familiar with Moffette, than Mopkins, having worked for Apollo for a number of years (Oh dear, I am probably going to be called a name dropper now).


dale
How long after picking up the brush, the first masterpiece?

The goal is not to obfuscate that which is clear, but make clear that which isn't.
Reply
#11
(04-09-2014, 06:13 PM)Mopkins Wrote:  The Doctrine Pedlar

HE:
I've Come to sell you God Madam - He's in this Magazine.
I came here on a Bicycle, I'm really very Keen.

SHE:
So you would sell me God would you, well really, aren't you sweet!
Come in for some refreshments dear, and rest your tired feet.

HE:
Just let me park the Bicycle my Church has lent to me;
I'm on it all the time now and it's Really Splendid, see!

SHE:
Oh isn't mankind clever to make such a contraption
That takes one's feet clear off the ground - no circumambulation
Allowed when one has such a thing to carry one around!
You could almost give up thinking with such a bell to sound!

Come in, Religious Caller, do come in and have a cake
And have a glass of water and some conversation make
With a crazy old woman who no longer rides a bike,
And go on, put the pamphlets there between us if you like.

So you would sell me God would you? The Grail as Magazine?
Do sit down on the sofa while I find a glass that's clean.
I know my knowledge of Him is a tiny speck of dust
So are you then a genius to say you have Him sussed?

HE:
I'm Proud to say that I know God much better that my Peers -
All my Church's Publications I've Studied hard for Years!
I can Recite a dozen Prayers (and some of them in Verse)
And with Somebody Elses's Words we once a day Converse.

I know lots of the Old Testament, Especially all the Rules,
And all the Pat Responses for the Unbelieving Fools.
My Church will have a Brochure to say what is Wrong with Yours,
You no longer need a conscience for We'll tell you all your Flaws.

And We can make you Holy with this Weekly Magazine
And Nobody would ever guess the Sinner you have been.
It may sound to you Exclusive, it may sound a little Odd,
But I confirm it Madam, We've the Copyright on God!

SHE:
Well I confess that I'm a fool, I barely know my Lord,
Although I too have read some books that hail from abroad.
I rarely get around to prayer, especially not in rhyme;
We never get the chance because we're talking all the time.
You've memorized Leviticus, I know the Song Of Songs
And you know Him and I know Him and both of us are wrong.

I don't believe your doctrine can confine The Boundless One...
And I'd rather not fellowship with petty quarrel numb -
So here dear, have a cupcake, for a year you'll need not eat,
Because inside that cupcake is a paddockful of wheat!
Here's your glass of water, you can drink it in a minute,
Careful how you hold it for I put an ocean in it!
And do look out this window here and tell me if you see
Like I do when I look through it the entire galaxy?

HE:
You Did say you were Crazy but I thought it was in Jest!
And I've got other Calls to Make, I'll let you have a Rest.
But if you've got any Questions I can bring an Elder and
He'll Explain about my Faith what I don't Understand
He's got a Bike just like mine! He's been Riding it for Years
And places lots of Pamphlets 'cause he's Better at the Gears.

So read those Magazines and I'll bring more in a Fortnight;
If you Subscribe as I do then you'll Probably be alright.
Oh and do you like my New Shoes? They're made of Crocodile!
Goodbye Madam, God Bless you and I'll see you in a While.

SHE:
Oh Witness Lord, the borrowed bike and hear the tinny bell!
Behold the Doctrine Pedlar that would save my soul from hell!
Oh look he's off already when we'd only just begun -
Come help me with the jigsaw then and have a bit of fun!

For You're a jigsaw puzzle that not one of us can solve;
And each one holds the merest piece and thinks he has the whole!
A vast eternal jigsaw with innumerable parts
Surpassing all the Golden Calves you find in human hearts!
Oh who knows You but You alone? Come sit down here with me,
These magazines will fuel the fire and we'll have veal for tea!

I found the poem to be well written and entertaining. It's hard to find anything to change without getting incredibly nit-picky. One thing I noticed was at times a line doesn't flow perfectly, such as the line beginning "so read those" and the line that follows. Again, a very entertaining read.
Reply
#12
hello Leanne - thanks for reading and commenting - I'm a bit mystified as to why she sounds like a cannibal - that wasn't the intention.... veal for tea is a reference the the magazines being offered up on the fire like a sacrifice for God while she has 'veal' - which I used mainly for rhyming purposes and in reference to the golden calf... oh well. It's the meter especially I'd like to fix, that's the main reason I posted it here...




(04-10-2014, 09:29 AM)Erthona Wrote:  Ballad meter with the iambic tetrameter line and iambic trimeter line combine into one seven foot line, with rhyming couplets.

There are a few lines that seem a bit off like:

L4 If you read "tired" as a diphthong like tie-erd, with the stress on the "tie" it works, if as single syllable as we do in Texas "tard" it doesn't. As Australia is larger than my country of Texas, I'll give the "tie" to you. Smile

-and-

L18 "So are you then a genius to say you have Him sussed?"

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

L19 "I'm Proud to say that I know God much better that my Peers -" "than" not "that"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I enjoyed the rhyme of circumambulation and contraption, plus the double entendre in circumambulation.

I think less a witch/cannibal and more an angel (although at points she does seem ceeepy, but maybe she is just otherworldly). That is over looking the fact that she may be as she presents herself, simply crazy, and the point is even a crazy lady has more sense than a "Doctrine Pedlar". I see the veal, which with several other things seems a bit ad hoc, either for meter or rhyme, so I think more that than an indication of cannibalism. If it were a religious pun, it would need to be mutton as in the phrase. "like lambs to the slaughter." even granting the golden calf statement "Surpassing all the Golden Calves you find in human hearts!".

However, I too would be interested in the "veal for tea" comment as to me it is nonsensical, although I am unsure if "veal for tea" means the same as "veal with tea:, even so...


Dale



hello again Erthona - thanks for jumping in here. I say tired as two syllables (TIRed), and genius as three syllables (GENiUS) which is why those lines sound wrong to you... on reflection most people say GENEyuss so I'll keep your revision of that line. Thanks for pointing out the typo in line 19.

In Australia tea is another word for the evening meal, as is the case with wherever Leanne is from.

Mopkins is a contraction of my name (Marianne Hopkins) which I use because I'm unoriginal and can't think up Usernames. I don't mop if I can help it.... Thanks for commenting on this, I need all the help I can get and it is much appreciated.


MICPSCHM-

this is how I say those lines -

So READ those MAGaZINES and I'LL bring MORE in A fortNIGHT
If YOU SubSCRIBE as I do THEN you'll PROBably BE alRIGHT


I say 'PROBley' instead of probably which is why the meters wrong here to anyone without my probley problem.... might edit 'you'll probably' to 'you ought to' which will hopefully fix it.
Thanks for the input...
Reply
#13
Scheme and Meter:

An even meter of 14 syllables throughout, except where it falters and makes the smooth ripples of rhyme into ugly mess of waves. The first four stanzas kept an intriguing da-dum, da-dum, da-dum, ba-da-da-dum feel to them with the scheme (is that the right word, Dale?) of

1
2

1
2

1
2

1
2
3
4

after which it breaks into free verse, if that's the right term. I honestly think this line arrangement makes the first four stanzas so sonically pleasing to the ears when read out loud. When the rhyme just doesn't sound right, I think it's because of technical things like this (see the Basic Meter thread for more).


What I'd change if it was my poem:

S (Stanza) 4SadLine) 2

What makes this awkward to read, with an abrupt ending, like your voice isn't sure how to stop reading the line, isn't the long word; it's the long meter. S4 goes 14 15 14 14, like a speed bump keeping you from a thrilling burst of acceleration. Just delete "clear", read the stanza, and feel the difference.

S4:4

This line is nonsense for the sake of rhyme. Here and later in the poem, I think it would be better to try and find a good analogy to church bells, even if it doesn't rhyme at first (a rhyme can almost always be shoehorned later, with how many crazy words and archaisms there are in English).

S5:1

A whole cake?! Perhaps just have "some" cake, why don't you.

S6:4

The break in meter here is fine, it helps slow down the dialogue before the man starts speaking again. However, if you want to give it 14 syllables, just add "that you have".

S7:1

"Than"

S8:1

This stanza reads poorly, I have reason to believe, because of two errors: the meter (16 14 14 15) and the third line. For the first line, you could just delete "lots of" (which adds arrogance and pomposity, and builds up to a steaming, angry rant without building up tongue-twisting syllables).

S8:3

A man, exhausted from a bicycle ride and allergic to opposing views, goes on an angry rant about how right he is and how wrong she and everyone else is. He wouldn't use many contractions, he would use emphatics: My Church will have a Brochure just to say what's wrong with yours.

S8:4

Okay, here you could just delete "for" and add a colon: that would heighten the drama with a sharp pause not even a period can muster up. I have a better idea, however, that I think you might like judging by your writing style: "you no longer need your guilt:" I love this because it takes the traditional Christian value of Jesus assauging our guilt (I have it, you have it, we all have it), even going so far as to say that "there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ", and reverses it by saying that 'You can't hide your shameful secrets from us, we'll rat them out and let the community know, so you might as well stop feeling guilty.'

S9:3

To fix the jarring 15 syllables here, consider, It may sound Exclusive, it may even sound a little Odd. That would put the emphasis on, Odd.

S10:3

Ow ow ow ow ow ow, this hurts to read out loud. The content is amazing though, and if you make a couple small improvements, you can take this beautiful diamond of poetry and properly ensconce it in gold. Line 2 wouldn't be so harsh if it wasn't for a two-syllable increase in Line 3. Just change "especially" to 'certainly'. Oh, and lines 5/6 here are my favorite in the whole poem, honestly, Bravado!

S11:8

Read the line. Delete the word "it". Now read the line again. See the difference? You get rid of the physical barrier of a window and see through the galaxy. Do you see like I do, or is your vision limited to your finances, your health, and your fear of death? Do worries have you so wrapped up that you have no time to watch a butterfly land on a flower? Are you too busy to pause with your kids at night to watch the stars, the ones outside in the sky?

S12:3-4

To harmonize this fine stanza, consider deleting "But" in line three, and change "He'll" to 'He will' in line four. I find that it slows down the stanza just enough to give it a sinister tinge.

S13:1-4

Please don't take offense at this, for this is only the opinion of one man, but I find the content in this stanza to be the most lacking of them all. If I may go on to explain, Line 2 clearly states that old televangelist vow to God for the sake of Happy Wallets. The old Give God your money and expect riches in return. However, the rest of the stanza fails to back this human weakness for greed. From the outdated "Fortnight" (What kind of magazine ships every twelve days, anyways?) to the weird inclusion of After a while, Crocodile, this stanza makes less sense than the 'crazy woman' stanza that isn't supposed to. I like changing Line 1 to 'If you like', Line 3 to Why just look at my Teeth, and how they gleam when I smile, and deleting "you" in line 4 (after God Bless).

S15:6

I need to sleep on this, I can't offer any suggestions right now, but this has to go. Even if you delete the line and leave the poem hanging, please do that. It takes this spiritual complexity of the Infinity that is God and suddenly inserts the weird thought of veal for tea. I see the Golden Calves reference, but this line still must change if nothing else.

Style

Some people can't stand random capitalization and a lack of grammar, but several popular poets use it extensively. I'm tired right now and about to go to bed, but I recall one lady, don't know her name, who frequently wrote about death and other morbid things. She used a similar style to keep serious dark subjects Infused with levity the way they ought to be.

It's clear that you enjoy using poetry as a tool to help express ideals and concepts to vast to encompass in prose. It's the polar opposite of me, and provides a wonderful, refreshing change of course. Great poem, and thank you, Mopkins, for the venerable read.

Quick question about iambs

S1:1

I stress Madam this way, though to be iambic Madam has to be stressed that way. Which is proper? Also, is this line iambic with “magazine” in the way, or can the zine part also carry some stress? Is that possible? It sounds stressed.

Over in Australia, do you carry the stress on the second syllable of Madam? Saying Ma' dam sounds almost insulting.
*Warning: blatant tomfoolery above this line
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#14
Very grateful to you Kindofahippy for your detailed crit - this is just the sort of thing I was hoping for on this forum.

S4L2 fixed thanks
S4L4 this was supposed to be a reference to the bicycle's bell but it is a bit murky I'll have to think on that one

S5L1 later she gives him a cupcake (a muffin to you maybe?) which is why I used 'a cake' - but some cake does make more sense.

S6L4 I I(it would seem incorrectly) say gen-i-us so I missed this meter problem

S8L1 thanks for this suggestion getting rid of 'lots of'

S8L4 i like your suggestion and I'll take it thank you very much
S9L3 your suggestion has 15 syllables too. I'll delete the second 'it' to fix the meter - It may sound to you exclusive, may sound a little odd-

S12 suggestions taken

S13 I don't like this stanza either - I'll work on it...

the last line is a bit pathetic I agree...

You've given me enough help here to start an edit and thank you for that - this is an oldie I've dug up to improve and it's a bit hard for me to edit it when it's been in this state for years and I'm used to it. A different eye is what's needed and you've done a great job critting it for me.

Working on an edit in between other jobs - which I'll post when I finish.

BTW I usually say MADam and maDam seems insulting but then so are many religious callers.... And I say MAGaZINE which may be wrong...

Most effusive thanks to you.

Marianne
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#15
Marianne, to be honest, the idea of cannibalism just comes from the fact that fresh meat has left the building and if she were a little more demonic she might have found a way to turn this mooncalf into a meal on wheels... but that's just my reading, although of course the last stanza does make her sound more than a little disturbed.

I could sort out your meter if you don't mind me rewriting a good portion of those lines -- it's less about counting syllables and more about keeping your stresses regular. Also, it wouldn't hurt to get rid of some twisted syntax like "some conversation make" -- rhymes should really seem as natural as possible. If you're amenable I'm happy to play with this on the weekend.

BTW, I'm on the Gold Coast. Not a native Queenslander, which is why I can speak clearly Big Grin
It could be worse
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#16
(04-10-2014, 07:16 PM)Leanne Wrote:  Marianne, to be honest, the idea of cannibalism just comes from the fact that fresh meat has left the building and if she were a little more demonic she might have found a way to turn this mooncalf into a meal on wheels... but that's just my reading, although of course the last stanza does make her sound more than a little disturbed.

I could sort out your meter if you don't mind me rewriting a good portion of those lines -- it's less about counting syllables and more about keeping your stresses regular. Also, it wouldn't hurt to get rid of some twisted syntax like "some conversation make" -- rhymes should really seem as natural as possible. If you're amenable I'm happy to play with this on the weekend.

BTW, I'm on the Gold Coast. Not a native Queenslander, which is why I can speak clearly Big Grin


Well G'day fellow Aussie - thought most people here would be yankees I'm in the Southwest of WA where all the good wine comes from... pity i don't drink...

I'd be honoured if you'd have a go at this one for me, the other posters have given me some ideas but I'm still a bit clueless... especially about meter I'm working on an edit which I'll post when its done.

Thanks for the kind offer and I look forward to reading it when its done.
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#17
I think the yanks are actually in the minority here... we keep them in order and make sure they leave here properly edumacated Wink

There are some threads on meter around the site, especially in the practice forum. Playing with structure is the best way to get your head around what's required, especially since it sounds as though you have a good natural rhythm. I'm working tomorrow but as I said, I'll have a shot at this on Saturday. It's always a pleasure to work on decent poems.

And of course, Dale doesn't count as a yank because he's from Texas -- same as Ray -- and Texas is an entirely different universe.

PPS. Margaret River? The yummiest sauvignon blanc in the country. You're so lucky.
It could be worse
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#18
(04-10-2014, 07:43 PM)Leanne Wrote:  I think the yanks are actually in the minority here... we keep them in order and make sure they leave here properly edumacated Wink

There are some threads on meter around the site, especially in the practice forum. Playing with structure is the best way to get your head around what's required, especially since it sounds as though you have a good natural rhythm. I'm working tomorrow but as I said, I'll have a shot at this on Saturday. It's always a pleasure to work on decent poems.

And of course, Dale doesn't count as a yank because he's from Texas -- same as Ray -- and Texas is an entirely different universe.

PPS. Margaret River? The yummiest sauvignon blanc in the country. You're so lucky.

Not to brag, but the average IQ of of the Aussies is higher than than Yanks....dunno what happened with me - missed out again. Texas being a different universe - who knows what their IQs are?


I'm glad that you think its a decent poem - I spent about a week and a half writing it back in 2001-it's my longest poem and the one I spent the most time on. I've had a break from writing and can't remember what I learned about meter the last time I went through a writing phase so I'll have to do more reading. I've been trying out meter in the double dactyls thread - and reading the posts on meter - hopefully it will all sink in.

I really appreciate your offer of editing this- very kind old chum.

Margaret River? I wish I could afford that - no I'm about 150km from there, inland, Boyup Brook (Country Music Capital) I call it Boring Brook - only interesting when there's a country music event on - if you like that sort of thing.

Thanks once again.

Marianne
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#19
Alright guys, enough with the OT chatter in the critical forums. Take it to PM's or the arse. Some posts deleted.
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#20
I like the story style method of yours.
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