(04-28-2015, 05:25 AM)Psyve Wrote: NOVEMBER ’57 – MARCH ’80
She has a cancer in her brain,
And it’s driving her insane Could be more, I dunno, poetic.
Slowly, day by day by day by day by day by day... she says… The earlier ellipsis should be a comma, and this is a bit repetitive on paper -- by the third day, we already get it. If this is just a transcription of song lyrics, well, the melody should be enough to sort out how many "days" we'll need to belt out; again, three should be enough.
She tells me that she’s dying:
She has this cancer in her mind Repeat. Sure, mind has a different connotation, but the positioning (and continuation) of this line does not make this either a good form of repetition, or an enlighteningly different point of view.
Which her doctors cannot find… And the position of the rhyme here is a bit odd -- AAB CDD -- never seen that before.
She has no eyes, no tears to weep:
Her cancers run too deep- Cancer said three times, all in very not-so-poetical ways...no vivid imagery, no clear emotional transaction, no nuggets of intellectual stimulation...nothing.
She’s so tired, she cannot sleep…And at this point, with the abject lack of poesy outside rhyme, the poem becomes mere verse.
She told me she was dying:
She had this cancer in her mind
That her doctors could not find…
https://soundcloud.com/psyve/november-57-to-march-80 I won't listen to the song. I'm criticizing your words as a literary form, not a musical one (pig pen poetry, after all) -- might be that the music adds something to your words, but that's outside the scope of this forum, methinks. In general, the poem might work for a rather vague pop or blues or jam-based jazz or folk song, but other than that, it's too not-poetic to really work; as I noted earlier, I don't even think I should call this a poem, just a song, a collection of verse.
Not that songs in general are just verse, though. Skipping Bob Dylan, half of whose works too closely with either pop or generalized folk conventions to be not-as-repetitive-as-they-could-be (but hey, the other half is really good poetry -- Like a Rolling Stone, I think, is up there), there are a lot of really poetical (as in, filled with vivid images, and with entertaining plays on words) songs that could be considered, on paper, as proper poems. Right now, the works I can think of are Schubert's Winterreise (and I think the songs there started out as paper-poems anyway), some of the wordier Hank Williams songs, some of the songs from Joni Mitchell's "high period" (that is, from Blue to Hejira, in my opinion) and some Bjork songs that, hehe, she didn't write all by herself (The Dull Flame of Desire, Sun in My Mouth, and Desired Constellation come to mind, all three of which are adaptations of paper poems into, well, songs). Oh, and the album shown by my current avatar (especially the fourth track, oh yes).
Thank you for your critique and for the time you spent on it.
I guess the bottom line is that it IS a lyric for a song and not a poem.
I'm sorry it didn't work for you.
-Psyve
I think this was originally in "mild" which is not where one would place song lyrics for evaluation (and you do not have the right to post in mild yet, although you probably will have the next time you log in). It has now been placed in "Miscellaneous" which is the correct forum for song lyrics. However, it should be noted the requirements for poetry and those for lyrics are fairly divergent from each other. For instance repetition is generally so unworkable in poetry today, it is generally dismissed out of hand, whereas in music lyrics, a tag or a hook is nearly always a repetition. So lyrics being evaluated by the criteria of poetry will generally not fare well. So posting in the correct forum and describing the type of feedback you wish to receive (as lyrics not poetry) will cause you to more likely receive what you are looking for. Just remember this is first and foremost a poetry workshop and not geared toward lyrics.
Dale
How long after picking up the brush, the first masterpiece?
The goal is not to obfuscate that which is clear, but make clear that which isn't.
Thank you for the clarification and yes, I fully understand.
As most of my work falls under the "lyrics" category, I will post in Miscellaneous.
-Psyve
Not sure the non resolution at the end does much good, nor the repetition of the second verse.
I would have difficulty critiquing your lyrics as I am not a member of your target audience. I don't mean to be unkind, but I was in the music business for a while, both in performance and production and to me it is just more of the same. Alice Cooper was doing the same thing 45 years ago, with much better production values, and better lyrics, but mainly 45 years before you. Maybe you should try to write meaningful lyrics, rather than just try and copy a style that was already old before you were born, or at least try and bring something new to the genre. Right now you are just following along in the same old rut, with I guess a little bit of an emo twist to it, but even that is not new. You know, pretending to be fascinated with insanity, or romanticizing insanity isn't really all that cool, it just lets anyone older than mid twenties or so, know you don't have any real experience with this. Maybe you can rise above the usual teen to twenties pablum and write lyrics of more value. Hey, I know, the age group you're targeting; just some creepy words, a weird voice, some synth and everything's fine, it's also very transient, but hey, if that's what your going for, then that's your choice (quality is not what necessarily sells). Of course there is that conflict in wanting to write about pain or horror, but never having been through it. "Hurt" by Nine Inch Nails has great lyrics because you can tell they aren't made up and because drug addiction, counting alcoholism, is so prevalent most anyone can relate to it from some point of view. To work towards those types of lyrics is what I would suggest you do if you wish to improve on the lyrics end of the process: not so much in the form, but in the content.
Best of luck,
Dale
How long after picking up the brush, the first masterpiece?
The goal is not to obfuscate that which is clear, but make clear that which isn't.
Hi Dale,
Thanks for listening and commenting.
Despite what you may think of it, this song stemmed from a real experience, and something that someone I knew was going through.
Incidentally, the cancer in the song isn't the physical desease one generally associates with the word.
Which is why "..She has a cancer in her mind..." in verse-2.
In the line "Her cancers run too deep" there is no apostrophe in that second word.
As regards the recording quality, and guitar / vocal work, those would certainly be because of my own technical limitations.
Oh, I may be a little older than you think. This one was written 35 years ago. And I never did care for Alice Cooper even back then! ( I was a Cohen / Dylan / Who/ Croce /Bread/ CSNY / Fleetwood Mac sort of person then.
Still am.
Though I find I can listen to Dylan only in very small doses these days... )
Thanks again for taking the time to listen and comment on this.
-Psyve
We've had a few song writers here in the past, and I'm sorry they're not here now to give you more qualified feedback than I'm able to give. Caveat aside, here goes.
(04-28-2015, 05:25 AM)Psyve Wrote: NOVEMBER ’57 – MARCH ’80--The title is compelling because in the context of the song it speaks of someone (the subject of the song) dying young.
She has a cancer in her brain,
And it’s driving her insane
Slowly, day by day by day by day by day by day... she says…--I like this in the song, though not as a poem. It sounds good being sung though. If you're going to end with "she says" than you should cut the she tells me in the next line and just blend. I can accept some repetition, but that would seem to work better.
She tells me that she’s dying:
She has this cancer in her mind
Which her doctors cannot find…--The only big issue I have with this stanza and S4 is the "she" in the verse is very two dimensional. You can put repetition into the structure, but the content should go a bit wider. This is a narrative in a way, and you need to make better use of your space to reveal the she of the poem better not just how she died. We should be made to care by the small details you add. Otherwise its a stranger dead in a medical drama--nothing more. This is less an issue with your words more the point that I'd like you to use your space better to hook us.
She has no eyes, no tears to weep:--I like this line for the images it paints.
Her cancers run too deep-
She’s so tired, she cannot sleep…
She told me she was dying:
She had this cancer in her mind
That her doctors could not find…
I'm glad you liked the "day by day, by day, by day,....." line as sung.
This repetition wasn't there in the original lyric as written: but was something that came spontaneously and something I FELT, as I sang this for the recording.
It just FELT right to me and so included it here.
Pleased you got the feeling too.
Not sure I can remove the "She tells me " from the next line as it is a new paragraph... a new verse... a new thought and I really wanted to break away from the train of thought of the line before, to say "She tells me that she's dying...".
As I've mentioned earlier, this song wasn't about a "real" death, although the person concerned was dying a little every day, metaphorically, and in great distress.
When I wrote this I felt the need to protect the identity of the person involved so chose the metaphor of Cancer and this song can therefore be read /heard very literally... as most readers / listeners do, naturally, and take away a very different understanding of the song. Which is fine by me as it was an intentional bit of "cloaking".
Not sure if that makes sense but "cloaking" of identities is something I have used a lot in my work.
I am also pleased you liked the lines "She has no eyes, no tears to weep"
Her cancers run too deep-
She’s so tired, she cannot sleep
Thank you again for taking the time to listen and comment on this song.
-Psyve
Dale,
Thank you for your comment. As I have indicated in my response to Todd above, I intended to let this be understood in one of two ways.
-Psyve
