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RE: Winter Soil
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02-25-2012, 04:25 PM
Center justify
Your such a perennial
Well! When are you due?
How long after picking up the brush, the first masterpiece?
The goal is not to obfuscate that which is clear, but make clear that which isn't. 
02-26-2012, 03:43 AM
I have tried to ignore Dale's pic, as I do not associate it with the first flowers, which tend to be pale -- right now we are having the white snowdrops push through, and some other Spring bulbs. I am not much for Haiku type stuff, but it does paint an instant picture which we all recognise.
Having glanced at your bio, I have to confess that I was for some reason with your kids, and wondered whether there might bean age problem!! I shall leave it to you to correct Dale who means to say 'You're'..... 
02-26-2012, 05:55 AM
Especially liked your earth-mother metaphor. Always good to see haiku. "It's fitting that the most difficult form gets the least respect; I'm reminded of zen koans." - Jane Reichhold . .
a brightly colored fungus that grows in bark inclusions
02-27-2012, 04:24 AM
(02-27-2012, 01:31 AM)Serah Wrote:(02-26-2012, 03:43 AM)abu nuwas Wrote: I have tried to ignore Dale's pic, as I do not associate it with the first flowers, which tend to be pale -- right now we are having the white snowdrops push through, and some other Spring bulbs. I am not much for Haiku type stuff, but it does paint an instant picture which we all recognise. I just noticed that my post did not make sense. I intended to say that I was glad to see evidence that you are not twelve......
02-27-2012, 04:59 AM
Quote:Serah said: "Thank you, Ray, glad you liked my Haiku, but it's not The earth-mother is a god, so she qualifies. Most evidence points to her as being the first god to be worshiped in an organized manner (though a few people think it was the sun). She gives birth to the plants of spring which are usually likened to her son and most times this is considered a virgin birth as she has the power to fertilize herself (pun intended). This is where the tradition of Easter originated. I used to have crocuses and snowdrops when I lived up north. Some wonderful person must have planted them some time in the 19th century as they had spread everywhere. They don't do so well in the deep south where I live now, but many types of daffodils do. I have lots of them and the last of them (yellow with white centers) still have some blooms. P.S. When I use terms like "earth-mother", "Zeus", or other religious terms in a comment; I intend them to be interpreted as literary (secular) metaphors, not religious ones. (I'd be happy to discuss religion, but we should do that in a general discussion thread, not a poetry one.)
a brightly colored fungus that grows in bark inclusions
03-03-2012, 11:05 PM
The original earth mother would have been Ninhursag. The original earth would have been what was left of Tiamat. (circa 8000BCE)
How long after picking up the brush, the first masterpiece?
The goal is not to obfuscate that which is clear, but make clear that which isn't.
03-04-2012, 03:07 AM
and he is Allah!
How long after picking up the brush, the first masterpiece?
The goal is not to obfuscate that which is clear, but make clear that which isn't.  (02-25-2012, 01:57 PM)Serah Wrote:the dichotomy of this one is that birth represents spring while snow can represent winter, the transition feels awkward because of the structure. then we have the sparkling, snow flakes don't sparkle, if they do then it's rain you're seeing, which detracts from the image or snapshot. would it read better if rearranged, of course it's only a suggestion; falling flakes
Blanket me with cold-- Prepare me for birth
03-07-2012, 06:54 AM
Kinda messes up the 5-7-5 syllable pattern, don't it?
How long after picking up the brush, the first masterpiece?
The goal is not to obfuscate that which is clear, but make clear that which isn't. (03-07-2012, 06:54 AM)Erthona Wrote: Kinda messes up the 5-7-5 syllable pattern, don't it?the 575 is a western ideal that doesn't really work. read a few basho translations the counts range from 253 to 774. as long as it can spoken in a normal breath it works...unless you're long winded one point i never mentioned is that it is supposed to be a snapshot of an image....commonly one from nature. the line Prepare me for birth isn't a part of the image it's a quote, request or some such other, it isn't factual as such the piece verges on senryu. it would have been more of an image if it had been preparing me for birth that said it's a solid attempt that doesn't require much of an edit.
03-07-2012, 11:31 AM
Actually I wrote a long article about how these forms do not translate at all, and how bi-lingual Japanese poets think that what we call Haiku is just a big joke. For starters a Haiku is as much a visual expression as it is a linguistic one. Second, as you point out, there is no legitimate equivalent in English for the "on" in Japanese, and generally the idea of the "kiru", which is the central feature of Haiku, is misunderstood or completely ignored in English. So I agree with you that the imposition of the 5-7-5 is basically arbitrary and nonsensical, but as Serah had started with that as the form, I thought it only correct to make suggestion within the confines of that restriction. Thus I thought it only correct to rib you about it.
hai Dale
How long after picking up the brush, the first masterpiece?
The goal is not to obfuscate that which is clear, but make clear that which isn't.
03-07-2012, 03:16 PM
Hey, that's what they say after they say, "There is only ONE God."....and his name is Allah! and Mohammad is his Prophet. Something like that. I just didn't know you were Muslim Deb!
Unless you're talking jazz, then it is "there is only one god and her name is Ella... Dale
How long after picking up the brush, the first masterpiece?
The goal is not to obfuscate that which is clear, but make clear that which isn't. 
03-08-2012, 02:03 AM
Great haiku. Utterly serene and tender. It reminds me of when I take bath and when I emerge from the water I always feel as though I've been reborn somehow. Thanks for the read, Serah.
"We believe that we invent symbols. The truth is that they invent us; we are their creatures, shaped by their hard, defining edges." - Gene Wolfe
[quote][quote='Serah' pid='91653' dateline='1331094798']
Hey, thanks guys for all the attention on my little Haiku here. Yeah, like I've said before, I've heard that Haiku can now be in different syllable counts, other than the 5-7-5 that i learned 6 years ago. No matter....I just use the Haiku for my writer's block or for a simple challenge of trying to paint a snap shot picture in the readers head about nature. If it is other than nature, it is then called a senrye. [/quote] senryu [quote]Ok, Billy: Snow does indeed sparkle! I've seen it with my own eyes...when the sun catches it at a certain time of day, and at night, by the moon light or the porch light or a street lamp. Guess you don't get out much in the snow, eh? LOL[/quote] i'm from the uk where it snows every year and in some places all year. guess i just see through different eyes is all [quote]The line: Prepare me for birth....was the punch line, if you will.....for me, it was the Winter Soil speaking....[/quote]That's what makes it a senryu, soil doesn't talk you're giving it an attribute it doesn't have. where as in a senryu it's possible to give speech to something without a mouth, in a haiku it's very uncommon if at all. [quote]But I do understand your point and thank you for that suggestion, but like Dale mentioned....it would mess up the 5-7-5 count and I started with that and I'm sticking to it....like gum to the pavement! : ) [/quote]messing up the count...forgive me, it wasn't my intention to mess it up  from wiki The best-known Japanese haiku is Bashō's "old pond": 古池や蛙飛込む水の音 ふるいけやかわずとびこむみずのおと (transliterated into 17 hiragana) furuike ya kawazu tobikomu mizu no oto (transliterated into romaji) This separates into on as: fu-ru-i-ke ya (5) ka-wa-zu to-bi-ko-mu (7) mi-zu no o-to (5) Translated:[20] old pond . . . a frog leaps in water’s sound Another haiku by Bashō:[21] 初しぐれ猿も小蓑をほしげ也 はつしぐれさるもこみのをほしげなり hatsu shigure saru mo komino wo hoshige nari the first cold shower even the monkey seems to want a little coat of straw This haiku by Bashō[21] illustrates that he was not always constrained to a 5-7-5 on pattern. It contains 18 on in the pattern 6-7-5. 富士の風や扇にのせて江戸土産 ふじのかぜやおゝぎにのせてえどみやげ fuji no kaze ya ōgi ni nosete Edo miyage the wind of Mt. Fuji I've brought on my fan! a gift from Edo This haiku by Issa[22] illustrates that 17 Japanese on do not always equate to 17 English syllables ("nan" counts as two on and "nonda" as three.) 江戸の雨何石呑んだ時鳥 えどのあめなんごくのんだほとゝぎす edo no ame nan goku nonda hototogisu how many gallons of Edo's rain did you drink? cuckoo just a couple of ideas as to how haiku translates. |
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