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	Posts: 171Threads: 25
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		She scrubs up well does my missus, in her dungarees and cape;
 I experience what bliss is
 when I gaze upon her shape.
 For although her hair is thinning
 and several parts are growing fat
 there aren’t any other women
 who can make me feel like that.
 In her eyes the stars are swimming
 without artificial gloss
 and I have to say no thank you to Kate Moss.
 
 Since she split up with Pete Doherty
 I’ve attracted Kate’s attention;
 her efforts to get off with me
 have been gathering momentum.
 She writes, “Dear Ray” from St Tropez,
 “I want to be with you so much!”
 She beseeches me to run away
 and live with her over the brush.
 She holds the hope that we’ll elope
 to Tenerife or Barbados
 but I have to say no thank you to Kate Moss.
 
 It ain’t that I don’t fancy Kate
 and her legs so long and lissom,
 but Kate does not appreciate
 the strength of the competition.
 They say Kate only shifts her ass
 out of bed for a grand or more,
 but for every pound of flesh she has
 my missus has three or four.
 When you weigh it in the balance
 I’d be suffering a loss
 so I have to say no thank you to Kate Moss.
 
 My missus makes lovely lasagne,
 curry and chilli con carne;
 that toffee stuff with banana –
 Kate Moss couldn’t make a sarnie.
 After a hard day at the office
 I’d return asking “Tea ready yet?”
 She’d be in bed drinking coffees
 and smoking cigarettes.
 Yes, I’ve thought about a threesome:
 it would be too much of a squash
 so I have to say no thank you to Kate Moss.
 
 While she’s snorting coke and smoking dope
 and overdosing acid
 I’m popping little pills in hope
 my vital parts aren’t flaccid.
 She’s sniffing far too many lines
 and damaging her septum;
 I’m sipping far too many wines
 and losing my erection.
 I’d love to please but these dodgy knees
 can pay homage to only one boss
 and I have to say no thank you to Kate Moss.
 
Before criticising a person, try walking a mile in their shoes. Then when you do criticise them, you're a mile away.....and you have their shoes. 
 
		
	 
	
	
	
		
	Posts: 1,568Threads: 317
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		Loved every word, Ray! 
I'm sure Kate means well but, as you point out, she couldn't even make a sarnie and what's the good of a woman like that?
 
(I could, were I in a critical mood, suggest some changes to tighten up your meter but I'm not, so I won't   )
	
It could be worse
 
		
	 
	
	
	
		
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		LOL, top write penguin, better the devil you know and all that.
	 
Oh what a wicket web we weave!
 
		
	 
	
	
	
		
	Posts: 1,827Threads: 305
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		Pound for pound she'd beat her easily--that is Kate Moss-- hands down!
 
 Some weird meter, but it kept my attention throughout, so I'll not complain.
 
 Dale
 
How long after picking up the brush, the first masterpiece?
 The goal is not to obfuscate that which is clear, but make clear that which isn't.
 
		
	 
	
	
	
		
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		Yep, you've made a fine case    An entertaining read throughout
	
PS. If you can, try your hand at giving some of the others a bit of feedback. If you already have, thanks, can you do some more?
 
		
	 
	
	
	
		
	Posts: 171Threads: 25
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		Thanks for the comments. With two of you cribbing the metre, I'm intrigued. I do Performance Poetry/ Open Mic/ Spoken Word - whatever you wanna call it - now and again and when I speak it the rhythm is flawless.  What's more, after watching me do this a few times my missus started to lose weight. Chasing after your husband with a rolling-pin can have that effect. Such is the power of Art.
	 
Before criticising a person, try walking a mile in their shoes. Then when you do criticise them, you're a mile away.....and you have their shoes. 
 
		
	 
	
	
	
		
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		Speaking cadences are different to meter -- we do tend to iron things out when we speak, as English is a rather uneven language with lots of variable stresses, but flawless meter does add another dimension of music to poetry whether it's written or spoken.  If this is a performance piece that you're happy with, I probably wouldn't tinker too much. 
I don't know how much you know about meter -- there's a basic meter thread  on the site and some forms to play with if you're interested, although the way I learned was just by finding examples of a particular meter and reading them over and over again until I could replicate it without thinking too much.  (I studied poetry at uni but in my undergrad degree, meter and form were never to be discussed  because they just weren't contemporary  enough)
	
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		the kate moss's of the world are not for real men   
it a thoroughly enjoyable piece.  as Leanne stated, when we speak poetry we can stop or speed up in order to make the thing work. as a reader who doesn't know the poets intent, it's a little harder   . that said it really is a fun poem
	
		
	 
	
	
	
		
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		Thanks, Leanne, Billy. I'd say the metre is a basic 4 beats a line with a bit of flexibility. I do write to strict metre sometimes but I often wonder if it's worth the effort. I've seen all sorts of absurdities as a result.It's maybe a poem I'm too familiar with to recognise its quirks but Dale's "weird metre" surprised me.
	 
Before criticising a person, try walking a mile in their shoes. Then when you do criticise them, you're a mile away.....and you have their shoes. 
 
		
	 
	
	
	
		
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		meter schmeter, that is because you are reading it in accentual verse, not meter. Accentual verse only counts the accented syllables in a line, each accent is the equal of one foot. Such as:
 It ain’t that I don’t fancy Kate
 and her legs so long and lissom,
 but Kate does not appreciate
 the strength of the competition.   (competition is generally only accented on the third syllable, however, I am assuming that most would read the first syllable as also being accented as it follows two unaccented syllables. Despite that, the line still reads awkwardly)
 
 This is basically equal to common meter as it falls out as alternating lines of 4 and 3 with an xyxy rhyme pattern. Where the problem arises for the reader is when you go more than three syllables without an accent, or if they are trying to impose meter where it does not exist. Also, beginning a line with two unaccented syllables can cause an awkwardness in the reading, whereas a triplet within the line does not. Most is simply an ear thing one learns.
 If one writes something in accentual verse, of course he can read it smoothly, as he knows the intended rhythm. This is similar to writing alternate lyrics to a tune. However, when read by someone else, they do not have access to this information, and so to them it reads awkwardly. I point this out to say that, being able to read ones own verse is no indication that there are not problems with it, and as a number of folks have commented on this (when myself and Leanne agree on something we count as a number of folks :p) I would take it as a given that there are problems with it. Whether you wish to learn to be able to recognize this and do something about it is of course entirely up to you.
 
 
 Cheers,
 
 Dale
 
How long after picking up the brush, the first masterpiece?
 The goal is not to obfuscate that which is clear, but make clear that which isn't.
 
		
	 
	
	
	
		
	Posts: 171Threads: 25
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		Thanks, Dale. The poem has been around some time and on another couple of sites so I checked back to see if the metre had been commented upon before. A couple of people had - though many more hadn't. Which leads me to suppose that it is, forgive the pun, a question of emphasis. I take your point, to some extent, but it's more important to me that the voice sounds (or reads) natural and authentic than that a strict metre is observed throughout. And I can't agree, by the way, that the line you cite, reads awkwardly.
 Best Wishes, Ray
 
Before criticising a person, try walking a mile in their shoes. Then when you do criticise them, you're a mile away.....and you have their shoes. 
 
		
	 
	
	
	
		
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		She scrubs up well does my missus,x      /    |   x   /  |  /      x  |  /  x
 
 in her dungarees and cape;
 /   x  | /   x |  /     x|    /
 
 I experience what bliss is
 /  x | /  x |  /    x |   /     x
 
 when I gaze upon her shape.
 /      x | /    x |  /    x |   /
 
 For although her hair is thinning
 /   x   | /       x |   /     x | /    x
 
 and several parts are growing fat
 x     /  x | x   /      x |   /     x |  /
 
 there aren’t any other women
 /       x    |   / x | /  x |  /  x
 
 who can make me feel like that.
 /     x   | /       x |  /     x |   /
 
 In her eyes the stars are swimming
 /    x   | /     x  |  /      x |   /   x
 
 without artificial gloss
 /    x   |  / x| / x |  /
 
 and I have to say no thank you to Kate Moss.
 x    x  /|     x  / |   x    /      |x     / |   x    /
 
 
 I'm not trying to prove anything, just to illustrate.  This is how I'd scan the first stanza of your poem -- x for an unstressed syllable, / for stressed (| is just to mark the feet).  In perfect meter, each line would follow the same pattern (or each corresponding line in each stanza).  The small variations you have are normal for speech and, as I said before, not wrong -- just not as even as it could be.
 
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		a quick note (sorry to drive the talk away from meter for an instant, though I do agree that technically something is a bit off at places), really think you did a good job of holding the stanzas up and keeping the idea flowing. it's an easy form to get repetitive over time, but I think your piece avoids that potential problem well, ensures all of its parts have a purpose, and stays entertaining
	 
Written only for you to consider.
 
		
	 
	
	
	
		
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		Thanks, Leanne. Thanks, Geoff. I see what you get at, Leanne, and apart from that I pronounce "experience" differently and "several" with only two syllables I totally agree. I just don't think that the overall rhythm is disturbed - but maybe that's because I'm so familiar with this poem. I shall be terribly self-conscious now when I read and write my other poems! Well, for a few days at least.
	 
Before criticising a person, try walking a mile in their shoes. Then when you do criticise them, you're a mile away.....and you have their shoes. 
 
		
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