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		03-30-2018, 02:12 PM 
(This post was last modified: 03-30-2018, 02:13 PM by Todd.)
	
	 
		Might as well post it.
 Onset
 
 Watching that frenzy of insects above the bush of white flowers,
 bush I see everywhere on hill after hill, all I can think of
 is how terrifying spring is, in its tireless, mindless replications.
 Everywhere emergence: seed case, chrysalis, uterus, endless manufacturing.
 And the wrapped stacks of Styrofoam cups in the grocery, lately
 I can’t stand them, the shelves of canned beans and soups, freezers
 of identical dinners; then the snowflake-diamond-snowflake of the rug
 beneath my chair, rows of books turning their backs,
 even my two feet, how they mirror each other oppresses me,
 the way they fit so perfectly together, how I can nestle one big toe into the other
 like little continents that have drifted; my God the unity of everything,
 my hands and eyes, yours; doesn’t that frighten you sometimes, remembering
 the pleasure of nakedness in fresh sheets, all the lovers there before you,
 beside you, crowding you out? And the scouring griefs,
 don’t look at them all or they’ll kill you, you can barely encompass your own;
 I’m saying I know all about you, whoever you are, it’s spring
 and it’s starting again, the longing that begins, and begins, and begins.
 
 BY Kim Addonizio
 
The secret of poetry is cruelty.--Jon Anderson
 
		
	 
	
	
	
		
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		03-30-2018, 02:15 PM 
(This post was last modified: 03-30-2018, 02:15 PM by Todd.)
	
	 
		Here's another of her poems I like (because I'm perverse).
 Chicken
 
 
 Why did she cross the road?
 She should have stayed in her little cage,
 shat upon by her sisters above her,
 shitting on her sisters below her.
 
 God knows how she got out.
 God sees everything. God has his eye
 on the chicken, making her break
 like the convict headed for the river
 
 who’s sloshing through the water
 to throw off the dogs, raising
 his arms to starlight to praise
 whatever isn’t locked in a cell.
 
 He’s headed for a farmhouse
 where kind people will feed him.
 They’ll bring green beans and bread,
 home-brewed hops.  They’ll bring
 
 the chicken the farmer found
 by the side of the road, dazed
 from being clipped by a pickup,
 whose delicate brain stem
 
 he snapped with a twist,
 whose asshole his wife stuffed
 with rosemary and a lemon wedge.
 Everything has its fate,
 
 but only God knows what that is.
 The spirit of the chicken will enter the convict.
 Sometimes, in his boxy apartment,
 listening to his neighbors above him,
 
 annoying his neighbors below him,
 he’ll feel a terrible hunger
 and an overwhelming urge to jab
 his head at the television over and over.
 
 by Kim Addonizio
 
The secret of poetry is cruelty.--Jon Anderson
 
		
	 
	
	
	
		
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		I've already just gone and bought a book she collaborated writing:The Poet's Companion: A Guide to the Pleasures of Writing Poetry
 
 Always great to pick a book up used for a few bucks.
 
		
	 
	
	
	
		
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		I've read that book. I like Dorianne Laux too. They did a nice job on it.
	 
The secret of poetry is cruelty.--Jon Anderson
 
		
	 
	
	
	
		
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		While I'm here, could you recommend any other writers or good books on poetry? I like that fluent, clear voice she has, and would welcome others like that. PM if that's more appropriate.
	 
		
	 
	
	
	
		
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		 (03-30-2018, 02:37 PM)danny_ Wrote:  While I'm here, could you recommend any other writers or good books on poetry? I like that fluent, clear voice she has, and would welcome others like that. PM if that's more appropriate. 
We have some liberty in a discussion forum. 
 
Recommendations can be a bit tricky and purely subjective but here are a few you may like:
 
Stephen Dobyns "Velocities": https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/014058...UTF8&psc=1 
Nick Flynn "Some Ether": https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/155597...UTF8&psc=1 
Marie Howe "What the Living Do": https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/039331...UTF8&psc=1 
Mark Strand "Reasons for Moving": https://www.amazon.com/Reasons-Moving-Ma...for+moving 
Strand wrote this in '68 (may have been reissued in '80). It isn't as easy to find. He rewrote prose using this title as part of the name so you want the older work.
 
I'm leaving a lot out.
	 
The secret of poetry is cruelty.--Jon Anderson
 
		
	 
	
	
	
		
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		Thanks! I'll be checking those out. Interesting that Strand hard cover is $250. Must be rare like you say. (Makes one even more curious to read.)
	 
		
	 
	
	
	
		
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		Keeping Things Whole
 In a field
 I am the absence
 of field.
 This is
 always the case.
 Wherever I am
 I am what is missing.
 
 When I walk
 I part the air
 and always
 the air moves in
 to fill the spaces
 where my body’s been.
 
 We all have reasons
 for moving.
 I move
 to keep things whole.
 
 - Mark Strand
 
 Wow, that's a real insight into sadness
 
assholery not intended .
 
		
	 
	
	
	
		
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		At first I thought I wouldn't like that poem, until the end. The meaning is quite touching. You say sadness, but also such low self esteem, getting out of the way of everything because it's more important, valuable. Wow, I'm rather impressed with how simply the poem expresses that.
	 
		
	 
	
	
	
		
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		 (03-31-2018, 11:29 AM)danny_ Wrote:  At first I thought I wouldn't like that poem, until the end. The meaning is quite touching. You say sadness, but also such low self esteem, getting out of the way of everything because it's more important, valuable. Wow, I'm rather impressed with how simply the poem expresses that. 
I know right? That ending is all like: boom 
I also see it as acknowledging the perfection of things without the intervention of oneself.
	 
assholery not intended .
 
		
	 
	
	
	
		
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		04-02-2018, 03:37 PM 
(This post was last modified: 04-02-2018, 04:38 PM by RiverNotch.)
	
	 
		taking a class on lit and society -- will post the poems we study here as much as i can. a few i've already read and love, particulary the basho, louise gluck, and conchitina cruz, and the posts may be a little redundant, but whatever. 
  (03-31-2018, 11:36 AM)cloud Wrote:   (03-31-2018, 11:29 AM)danny_ Wrote:  At first I thought I wouldn't like that poem, until the end. The meaning is quite touching. You say sadness, but also such low self esteem, getting out of the way of everything because it's more important, valuable. Wow, I'm rather impressed with how simply the poem expresses that. I know right? That ending is all like: boom
 
 I also see it as acknowledging the perfection of things without the intervention of oneself.
 more the second reading for me. kinda like schopenhauerian ethics, or at least how i understand schopenhauer's ethics --- to be less convoluted, perhaps the zen ideal of active inaction. there's too little wistfulness with regards to what the speaker leaves behind that makes his nothingness particularly melancholic.
 
 
also glorious dance of the stars and all that.
	
		
	 
	
	
	
		
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		This poem is one of my favorites of all time, and just gets better each time I read it. 
 The Woman In This Poem
 
 The woman in this poem
 lives in the suburbs
 with her husband and two children
 each day she waits for the mail and
 once a week receives
 a letter from her lover
 who lives in another city
 writes of roses warm patches
 of sunlight on his bed
 Come to me he pleads
 I need you and the woman
 reaches for the phone
 to dial the airport
 she will leave this afternoon
 her suitcase packed
 with a few light clothes
 
 But as she is dialing
 the woman in this poem
 remembers the pot-roast
 and that fact that it is Thursday
 she thinks of how her husband's face
 will look when he reads her note
 his body curling sadly toward
 the empty side of the bed
 
 She stops dialing and begins
 to chop onions for the pot roast
 but behind her back the phone
 shapes itself insistently
 the number for airline reservations
 chants in her head
 in an hour her children will be
 home from school and after that
 her husband will arrive
 to kiss the back of her neck
 while she thickens the gravy
 and she knows that
 all through dinner
 her mouth will laugh and chatter
 while she walks with her lover
 on a beach somewhere
 
 She puts the onions in the pot
 and turns toward the phone
 but even as she reaches
 she is thinking of
 her daughter's piano lessons
 her son's dental appointment
 
 Her arms fall to her side
 and as she stands there
 in the middle of her spotless kitchen
 we can see her growing
 old like this
 and wish for something   anything
 to happen   we could have her go
 mad perhaps and lock herself
 in the closet crouch there
 for days her dresses withering
 around her like cast-off skins
 or maybe she could take
 to cruising the streets at night
 in her husband's car
 picking up teenage boys
 and fucking them in the back seat
 we can even imagine
 finding her body
 dumped in a ditch somewhere
 on the edge of town
 
 The woman in this poem offends us
 with her useless phone and the persistent
 smell of onions we regard her as we do
 the poorly calculated overdose
 who lies in bed somewhere
 not knowing how her life drips
 though her drop by measured drop
 we want to think of death
 as something sudden
 stroke or the leap
 that carries us over the railing
 of the bridge in one determined arc
 the pistol aimed precisely
 at the right part of the brain
 we want to hate this woman
 
 but mostly we hate knowing
 that for us too it is
 moments like this
 our thoughts stiff fingers
 tear at again and again
 when we stop in the middle
 of an ordinary day and
 like the woman in this poem
 begin to feel
 our own deaths
 rising slow within us
 
 by Bronwen Wallace
 
Time is the best editor.
 
		
	 
	
	
	
		
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		That was a great read. Thanks, Richard
	 
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		The Emperor's New Sonnet
 by Jose Garcia Villa
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
		
	 
	
	
	
		
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		 (04-04-2018, 06:10 PM)RiverNotch Wrote:  The Emperor's New Sonnet
 by Jose Garcia Villa
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
I'm sorry I have to do this. The first few reads were wonderful but then it got a bit stale. I clear it up in my Emperor's New Critique (below):
 
Best,
 
Todd
	 
The secret of poetry is cruelty.--Jon Anderson
 
		
	 
	
	
	
		
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Or is it just me seeing absolutely nothing?
	 
		
	 
	
	
	
		
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		 (04-04-2018, 10:42 PM)Todd Wrote:   (04-04-2018, 06:10 PM)RiverNotch Wrote:  The Emperor's New Sonnet
 by Jose Garcia Villa
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 I'm sorry I have to do this. The first few reads were wonderful but then it got a bit stale. I clear it up in my Emperor's New Critique (below):
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Best,
 
 Todd
 
xD
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jose_Garcia_Villa 
he's what a lot would consider to be the preeminent modern filipino poet in english. i love how he was also a master troll.
	 
		
	 
	
	
	
		
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		That comma stuff looks ridiculous. Nobody enjoys a stutter in real life, why more in a poem? I don't too much mind the limit-stretching syntax of Cummings but I can't find much in liking commas after every word. I feel like I'm in paranoid grandma's car going 2-7 MPH, stop, go, stop, go... going places. Yea. Not really. Well it gave me a brilliant idea tho:
 I'm! going! to! put!
 a! serious! flare!
 in! my! poems!
 
 He says such poetry compares to Pointillism in that 'points of color are themselves the medium as well as the technique of statement.' - Problem is points of color are color, not black commas, or even individual words which rarely carry much meaning without the context of other words. The points of color form a whole picture together in a single glance, no need to look at each dot one at a time - poems with hundreds of commas slow down such a glance at the big picture. It's like trying to drive a mile down a pothole-plastered road.
 
		
	 
	
	
	
		
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		 (04-04-2018, 06:10 PM)RiverNotch Wrote:  The Emperor's New Sonnet
 by Jose Garcia Villa
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Legit
 
Peanut butter honey banana sandwiches
 
		
	 
	
	
	
		
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		Lola Coquetaby Isabela Banzon -- her book is great, but I haven't bought a copy yet. The bookstore selling the thing's just too far a walk
 
 No hay sabado sin sol
 como no hay vieja sin amor.
 
 Long ago, Cecilia,
 the halls of Balanga
 swelled like the moon outside
 your window. Ay, sus,
 the frog in the dry grass
 of my throat kept pleading
 to be freed and it was
 hard not to turn away, just,
 and ignore the hot
 Saturday dust from your
 Lolo's mahogany cane tapping to the croak
 of my sweet kundiman.
 Ay the things you must do
 to ensure a wedding --
 un poco pintura
 y polvo, champaka
 on the shy skin. It was
 on such a night as this
 under the gas-fed light
 Don Manuel led me
 to the courtyard of his
 loneliness.
 A stage
 presentation, hija,
 the impresario said.
 
 Pero, ahora, for
 what are those tears? If
 Ramoncito could see
 the distress in your eyes,
 he would no longer wait
 to wake the maya
 in your song. You must show him
 your life is in his hands
 and you must be grateful
 to be at his service --
 for what is a woman,
 haber, but nada without
 the grip of a man on
 her life -- por favor,
 use your cocote
 and do not waste on that
 poor boy Fidel your
 undying love.
 
 
 
 Witchgrass
 by Louise Gluck -- I told the prof I really, really loved Gluck, so here we go
 
 Something
 comes into the world unwelcome
 calling disorder, disorder --
 if you hate me so much
 don't bother to give me
 a name: do you need
 one more slur
 in your language, another
 way to blame
 one tribe for everything --
 as we both know,
 if you worship
 one god, you only need
 One enemy --
 I'm not the enemy.
 Only a ruse to ignore
 what you see happening
 right here in this bed,
 a little paradigm
 of failure. One of your precious flowers
 dies here almost every day
 and you can't rest until
 you attack the cause, meaning
 whatever is left, whatever
 happens to be sturdier
 than your personal passion --
 It was not meant
 to last forever in the real world.
 But why admit that, when you can go on
 doing what you always do,
 mourning and laying blame,
 always the two together.
 I don't need your praise
 to survive. I was here first,
 before you were here, before
 you ever planted a garden.
 And I'll be here when only the sun and moon
 are left, and the sea, and the wide field.
 I will constitute the field.
 
 
 
 
 And then it was less bleak because we said so
 by Wendy Xu -- I don't enjoy this as much. Perhaps because it's new to me, probably because the others are so mature, so seductive
 
 Today there has been so much talk of things exploding
 into other things, so much that we all become curious, that we
 all run outside into the hot streets
 and hug. Romance is a grotto of eager stones
 anticipating light, or a girl whose teeth
 you can always see. With more sparkle and pop
 is the only way to live. Your confetti tongue explodes
 into acid jazz. Small typewriters
 that other people keep in their eyes
 click away at all our farewell parties. It is hard
 to pack for the rest of your life. Someone is always
 eating cold cucumber noodles. Someone will drop by later
 to help dismantle some furniture. A lot can go wrong
 if you sleep or think, but the trees go on waving
 their broken little hands.
 
 
 
 
 Hope is that thing with feathers (254)
 by Emily Dickinson -- of course
 
 "Hope" is the thing with feathers --
 That perches in the soul --
 And sings the tune without the words --
 And never stops -- at all --
 
 And sweetest -- in the Gale -- is heard --
 And sore must be the storm --
 That could abash the little Bird
 That kept so many warm --
 
 I've heard it in the chillest land --
 And on the strangest Sea --
 Yet -- never -- in Extremity,
 It asked a crumb -- of me.
 
		
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