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I still find it hard to believe sometimes that, in this day and age, when we can change a person's sex and travel to the moon, great masses carry on thinking that world events are influenced by a deity. That bargain basement psychopaths like the evangelist Pat Robertson, who hosts the American Christian talk show The 700 Club, is allowed to broadcast after claiming, live on air, that 9/11 and Hurricane Katrina were caused by God's wrath over abortion and homosexuality, whilst over here Nick Griffin, equally as nasty and, I'd argue, evil, had trouble even getting on an episode of Question Time.
Religion, I think, does serve a useful purpose, and is just a natural side effect of our humanity, our intellect and thus our search for purpose in this life. When utilised well, it can give people hope, encourage charity and kindness. But all too often it's been exploited by the greedy, the wicked and the stupid, like Mr. Robertson.
What are your opinions on this?
"We believe that we invent symbols. The truth is that they invent us; we are their creatures, shaped by their hard, defining edges." - Gene Wolfe
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(11-14-2010, 01:33 AM)Heslopian Wrote: I still find it hard to believe sometimes that, in this day and age, when we can change a person's sex and travel to the moon, great masses carry on thinking that world events are influenced by a deity. That bargain basement psychopaths like the evangelist Pat Robertson, who hosts the American Christian talk show The 700 Club, is allowed to broadcast after claiming, live on air, that 9/11 and Hurricane Katrina were caused by God's wrath over abortion and homosexuality, whilst over here Nick Griffin, equally as nasty and, I'd argue, evil, had trouble even getting on an episode of Question Time.
Though I do not believe God is evil I too find these things hard to believe.
These sorts of people believe vehemently that the wrath of God is upon the earth because of our so-called sins. They will use all sorts of so-called biblical teachings to justify their own ignorances.
Using scare tactics and imposing fear is a great way to keep people on the straight and narrow.
(11-14-2010, 01:33 AM)Heslopian Wrote: Religion, I think, does serve a useful purpose, and is just a natural side effect of our humanity, our intellect and thus our search for purpose in this life. When utilised well, it can give people hope, encourage charity and kindness. But all too often it's been exploited by the greedy, the wicked and the stupid, like Mr. Robertson.
I also agree with you here.
You give to the world when you're giving your best to somebody else.
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I don't think that Robertson really cares about keeping people on the straight and narrow, at least not deep down in his cold, black heart. He has no empathy, and in lieu of this basic emotion has latched onto God. He only wants power and respect, if not through compassion and intelligence, then through fear. That such a disgusting piece of shit would espouse the Bible, encourage hate crimes against gay youths, girls who have abortions and other beliefs, is definitive proof that things must change.
I don't believe in God, but I think he can have a positive effect on our world, given the right people. If faith, whether it be in Allah or Jesus or whomever, encourages good deeds, then it has a purpose.
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(11-14-2010, 05:35 AM)velvetfog Wrote: But the members of his fan clubs here on earth, they often are.
 . I love the idea of a God fan club. I wonder if he has groupies as well...
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we first have to ascertain that god exists before we say he's evil.
if he does exist in the format the catholic church tells us he does
i'd say he's not evil, he's just not enlightened per say. if god did exist
he'd have changed the thoughts he had of 2000 years ago and give us some new ones.
what we can't is confuse religion with god. we're responsible for the actions attributed to religion
if god does exist. what we do in the name of religion wouldn't concern a god such as that.
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But how do we know that God exists in the first place, unless he's a creation of mankind, like all those traditions, superstitions and prejudices?
"We believe that we invent symbols. The truth is that they invent us; we are their creatures, shaped by their hard, defining edges." - Gene Wolfe
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(11-15-2010, 01:26 AM)bob5695 Wrote: the origin of the big bang is not known.
the lightning during a storm used to be the rage of the gods until we found out they were electric discharges.
when we find the origin of the big bang it'll cease to be a creation of god.
I hear what you are saying but I don't entirely agree (at least not at this moment in my own searching). So what created the electrical charges? > energy > God's energy (I believe).
There's a reason that we are spiritual, some more than others. I think many of us become less atune to the spiritual energy because of a disconnection perhaps due to our artifical/plastic life style, bombardment by everyday clutter, for many others in deprived countries simply trying to feed the body takes up much of the day. Placed in the right envivonment away from distraction and given time to ease our busy minds then we begin to connect with our inner/spiritual selves.
(11-15-2010, 01:24 AM)Heslopian Wrote: But how do we know that God exists in the first place, unless he's a creation of mankind, like all those traditions, superstitions and prejudices?
Gosh ... and how many times has this question been asked? Probably as many times as there are stars.
Maybe God is in fact the imagination of mankind ... maybe that imagination has been so strong that it has generated the energy of God into existence.
(11-15-2010, 01:26 AM)bob5695 Wrote: god is a metaphor for the good in the human heart much like the devil (aka satan) is a metaphor for the evil in the human heart.
kill all humans and there won't be god nor devil.
You may very well be right billy. The planet certainly would be in a better state, unadulterated by all our medeling.
I do bebieve in a higher being/energy. I can't prove it, but I do feel it.
You give to the world when you're giving your best to somebody else.
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(11-15-2010, 04:22 AM)bob5695 Wrote: (11-15-2010, 03:23 AM)kath3 Wrote: You may very well be right billy bob.
/fixed
Oooops  Sorry bob, thanks for fixing.
You give to the world when you're giving your best to somebody else.
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(11-15-2010, 03:23 AM)kath3 Wrote: Gosh ... and how many times has this question been asked? Probably as many times as there are stars.
Maybe God is in fact the imagination of mankind ... maybe that imagination has been so strong that it has generated the energy of God into existence.
That sounds like circular logic to me (he exists because we think he does, and we think he does because he exists) but each to his own. I don't have an issue with the concept of God, if it can help inspire hope, and really I can't imagine a world without him; as the most intelligent species on earth, we're aware of our mortality, and it terrifies us, so it's natural that we'd devise religion, simply to get us through the night, and answer the unanswerable. What I do take issue with is people using said concept to harm the innocent, justify their own sick bigotry and inflict their hatred on their world. I believe in the separation of church and state, as one man's beliefs should not affect a thousand more who don't share them. Like all this talk about keeping marriage "sacred." What does "sacred" even mean? Since when was love the property of theologians?
Sorry, now I'm just ranting .
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the concept of god was thought up by man,ergo he,she, it only exists in our mind and is kept alive by discussions about it,if it's not in the mind ,it doesn't exist
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(11-15-2010, 12:15 PM)srijantje Wrote: the concept of god was thought up by man,ergo he,she, it only exists in our mind and is kept alive by discussions about it,if it's not in the mind ,it doesn't exist
Like an "I think, therefore I am" scenario?
The most fascinating clue about the nature of god (if we're going to go into a philosophical discussion that assumes he exists) is that humans were supposedly "made in his image and likeness". I'm... pretty sure that doesn't literally mean he has two eyes, two legs, etc. To me, it means he is capable of what humans by nature are capable of but on a cosmic scale.
Theoretically, that would then mean he's capable of the most perfect good, but also the opposite.  (Just an idea... it's not like I majored in theology or anything)
PS. If you can, try your hand at giving some of the others a bit of feedback. If you already have, thanks, can you do some more?
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that's exactly what i mean,concepts only exist in the frame of our imagination
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11-16-2010, 08:47 PM
(This post was last modified: 11-16-2010, 08:48 PM by billy.)
maybe god made us believe?
addy; if god exists then it a given that he's capable of anything isn't it?
billy, er sorry Bob; i think you have a valid point. god and the devil are metaphors
sj, who said the concept of god was thought of by man? (apart from you and me)
vf; aliens propagating the planet with spliced genes doesn't preclude there being a god.
thankfully god gave us free will, now i can say i don't believe in him. though i do think at times he has been evil. which in theory would make him evil.
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god is as much thought of by man as aliens are,everything is
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I would consider the Bible a book of metaphors about God (as well as morality and salvation, etc etc), and if God is nothing more than a metaphor, then all of the verses proclaiming the greatness of God, the words of the prophets, and even Christ himself, missed the mark.
Sure, there are other topics, but I'd like to think they thought of God as something a little bit more. Why wouldn't they, anyway? Judging by the times they lived in, God probably served as an explanation to many things as well (as he still does today)
Ah, but to be evil is to be inferior, is it not?
God cannot be that, so I'm sicking with good
(I'm prepared to defend the superiority of good  )
Plus, why else would God created us/ give us free will if not out of love?
I really need to stop with the typos. I'm not a Christian, but I'm talking about the human race as a whole and I'm beginning with the premise that God does indeed exist.
The whole idea behind God's little act of creation is that he did so out of love. The same goes for free will, evil being a sort of "bi-product" of free will.
Not that I think the Christian concept of a God is correct or anything :p
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cherone is fine, anything is if it lends a point.
how is god evil? maybe the concept of god is evil but to say god is evil, mmmm
lets presume he exists. if we do that we also have to presume he's omnipotent as well.
if he omnipotent then isn't it obvious he's also evil as well as good. i can see how flooding a planet can be seen as evil by those who perished but joey and his arc thought god was the bee's knees i've no doubt. good and evil, i think it depends more on our pov than his actions.
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right on Bob.anyway,there are things happening in this world that are absolutely unacceptable and if there is an all powerfull being that could prevent those things but doesn't,well,fuck him,he's truly evil then.
- the partially blind semi bald eagle
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Why would you presume he's evil as well?
If you take the perspective that absolute good is perfection, and absolute evil is imperfection, then that's saying he's both perfect and imperfect (?)
That's like saying "What a sunny night it is outside!"
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