The dream began as they often do: familiar dread, unfamiliar place— children with the names I gave them, ages flouting linear time.
Men stood in rows like solemn corn— a marching band missing a routine and music— with Paul Ryan's slicked black All-American hair, matching navy blue fitted suits, and placid eyes that followed the golden bullet gleaming overhead.
Their eyes were drawn in time along its line through the sky, tuning to the mastery of a new conductor, mouths slung open the way they slack when the mind abandons consciousness.
There was no warning but mine, or sign from Yahweh— no rainbow or prepared ark.
They never looked down or to the side, so they didn't see us wash away.
The dream began as they always do: familiar dread, unfamiliar place— children with the names I gave them
and ages that make no sense in logical time.
Men stood in rows like solemn corn, like a marching band with no routine and no music, only Paul Ryan's slicked black All-American hair, navy blue fitted suits, and placid eyes that followed
the bullet gleaming golden overhead, the way that kittens fix on a wiggling string. Their faces showed no fear, no judgment, no signals of thought, just a silent ------wow------ and mouths slung open the way they slack when the mind abandons consciousness.
There was no covenant, or sign from Yahweh— no prepared ark.
They never looked down or to the side, so they didn't see us wash away.
Quote:The dream began as they always do:
familiar dread and unfamiliar place,
children with the names I gave them
and ages that make no sense in logical time. I like familiar/unfamiliar and the next two lines put me firmly in the dream mix of skewed reality.
Men stood in rows like solemn corn, love this strong image.
like a marching band with no routine and no music,
only Paul Ryan's slicked black All-American hair, "only" is a bump for me, possibly "all with" or something else.
navy blue fitted suits, and placid eyes that followed i think the enjambment works well but I'm not a fan of how the white space after it gives a longer pause.
the bullet gleaming golden overhead,
the way that kittens fix on a wiggling string.Saying kittens/fix then wiggling/string is a bit awkward for me, though I like the image and can easily apply the line to the men.
Their faces showed no fear,
no judgment, no signals of thought
just a silent ------wow------ I'm still on the fence with wow, it doesn't quite jibe with their blandness.
mouths slung open the way they slack
when the mind abandons consciousness.
There was no covenant,
or sign from Yahweh—
no prepared ark.
They never looked down or to the side,
so they didn't see us wash away.
Thanks for the interesting read, good luck with it.
billy wrote:welcome to the site. make it your own, wear it like a well loved slipper and wear it out. ella pleads:please click forum titles for posting guidelines, important threads. New poet? Try Poetic DevicesandWard's Tips
The dream began as they always do: familiar dread, unfamiliar place— children with the names I gave them
and ages that make no sense in logical time.
Men stood in rows like solemn corn, -I like this. It reminded me at first of Joseph's brothers. like a marching band with no routine and no music, -maybe not two likes only Paul Ryan's slicked black All-American hair, -good description of him navy blue fitted suits, and placid eyes that followed
the bullet gleaming golden overhead, the way that kittens fix on a wiggling string. Their faces showed no fear, no judgment, no signals of thought, just a silent ------wow------ and mouths slung open the way they slack when the mind abandons consciousness.
There was no covenant, -wondering if this is an odd after-thought or sign from Yahweh— no prepared ark.
They never looked down or to the side, so they didn't see us wash away. -as in being swept away or really be busy washing?
Hi Lizzie
Your poem had an understandable dream feel to it. Like how dreams really
are, where stronger more impressionable images really take hold, but then things
shift and bounce around, too. It seems there's a lot that I should know, but
I find it quite mysterious.
The dream began as they always do:
Bit lost on 'they'. familiar dread, unfamiliar place—
it would be interesting if you could rework this
so that 'unfamiliar' directly followed 'familiar'. children with the names I gave them and ages that make no sense in logical time.
no sure about 'logical time', but if you went with
'linear time' it would also play with the next line.
Nice scene setting.
Men stood in rows like solemn corn,
could 'like' be switched with a modifier? (e.g. 'stiff'?) like a marching band with no routine and no music,
do you need the second 'like' at all? only Paul Ryan's slicked black All-American hair,
agree with ellajam about 'only'
Obviously it's your dream, but would 'each one had Paul...' work? navy blue fitted suits, and placid eyes that followed
strong images through this stanza, works well.
the bullet gleaming golden overhead,
would switch gleaming golden. the way that kittens fix on a wiggling string.
the bullet, presumably, has an essentially straight-line trajectory,
a wiggling string does not. You give the 'men' a somnambulistic quality
which does not fit with a kitten tracking string. Their faces showed no fear,
would like a bit more detail on their faces.
Are they also Ryan-esque? Are they all the same face? no judgment, no signals of thought, just a silent ------wow------ and mouths slung open the way they slack when the mind abandons consciousness.
apart from the last line (nice, by the way), this is
a rather weak section of the piece.
'No signals of thought/mouths open...slack/abandons conscious' -
all basically synonyms. No real/interesting images.
There was no covenant, or sign from Yahweh— no prepared ark.
They never looked down or to the side, so they didn't see us wash away.
Get lost on the last two stanzas, I'm afraid.
Rather like the bullet, they seem to come out of nowhere.
Not sure what to make of the title.
Enjoyed the read
(12-09-2017, 04:14 AM)Lizzie Wrote: The dream began as they always do:
familiar dread, unfamiliar place—
children with the names I gave them
and ages that make no sense in logical time.
Men stood in rows like solemn corn,
like a marching band with no routine and no music,
only Paul Ryan's slicked black All-American hair,
navy blue fitted suits, and placid eyes that followed in think it would be smoother without that blank line between follow and bullet.
the bullet gleaming golden overhead,
the way that kittens fix on a wiggling string. strings could be plural.. and maybe "as" instead of "the way" (since it comes a second time later)
Their faces showed no fear,
no judgment, no signals of thought,
just a silent ------wow------
and mouths slung open the way they slack
when the mind abandons consciousness. i think those 5 lines could be shorter, something like "their faces showed no judgement/mouths slacked open and abandoned/in silent awe."
There was no covenant, i wondered if you could leave out "from jahweh" and write "no ark in sight"
or sign from Yahweh—
no prepared ark.
They never looked down or to the side, "they never dropped their eyes to see us/ wash away"?
so they didn't see us wash away.
somehow this reminds me of atom bomb testing. i read a nightmare of the apocalypse into it.
man-made, not necessarily men-made.
therefore i first thought maybe you should put "generals" or "scientists" in the second stanza instead of "men".. but that sounds too specific for a dream. have no solution for that and the problem anyway exists only in my head, which wants to read a slightly different question about who ordered and why, but that would just lead astray and probably wouldn´t fit into your poem. so nevermind : )
i like how you describe this fatal fascination.
the kittens, fixed on that string caused me to think about instincts involved.. beside admiration of power (which your title seems to ironically point at)
love the last two stanzas , wash away is a good image, especially with ark mentioned before.
(12-09-2017, 04:14 AM)Lizzie Wrote: The dream began as they always do: familiar dread, unfamiliar place— The feeling precedes the experience of the dream children with the names I gave them
and ages that make no sense in logical time. I like the ambiguity in your description. Puts me in the right mindset for the subject. You refer to 'children' here, and then 'men' in the second stanza. Did the children become men, or are these different people entirely?
Men stood in rows like solemn corn, like a marching band with no routine and no music, only Paul Ryan's slicked black All-American hair, navy blue fitted suits, and placid eyes that followed this break is a little disorienting, since 'placid eyes' is so essential to the next stanza.
the bullet gleaming golden overhead, the way that kittens fix on a wiggling string. Their faces showed no fear, no judgment, no signals of thought, just a silent ------wow------ and mouths slung open the way they slack when the mind abandons consciousness.
Why use descriptive language when you could simply state things as what they appear to be? the first stanza already prepares us for the mutable logic of a dream and the rest of the poem seems comfortable referring to dream symbols directly, rather than relating them to other symbols. For example: and mouths slung open abandoning consciousness The next stanza does exactly that, and unpacks neatly.
There was no covenant, or sign from Yahweh— no prepared ark.
They never looked down or to the side, so they didn't see us wash away. I read this 'us' as being separate from the men, so possibly the viewer and the children mentioned before? I'm presuming you mean Noah's ark, and not the ark of the covenant, considering 'washed away'. The ending feels a little abrupt and unclear. Maybe if you connected it a little more to the previous stanza, which also feels a bit short, you could introduce more clarity. 'no prepared ark' sets up 'washed away' anyway.
Very enjoyable, I like how layered and true to the feeling of a dream it is. Thanks for the read!
Excellent critique, but I've changed all your red text to green. Could you please not use red in the future? Here we reserve it for moderator/admin comments and it makes the members nervous Thanks/ Admin
Hello, ellajam, Knot, nibbed, vagabond and KYPunk! Thanks so much for the responses, they give me plenty to focus on for the first edit which I shall begin working on shortly.
Hi Lizzie,
I think this is much improved (despite the fact that I am baffled by the title ),
but I do think you could be a bit more 'brutal' in your editing.
L4 perhaps 'defying' for 'flouting?
L5 I think you could do better than 'like', maybe 'stiff' or 'strong' or 'unripe'?
L6 I don't think you need either 'with' or 'and' a marching band, no music, no routine
L7 perhaps 'just' for 'with'?
L11 the repetition of 'eyes' and 'time' weakens this line, I think.
(consider 'duration' perhaps?)
Like the introduction of 'conductor' to tie-in with 'no music'
L15/16 could tighten these lines mouths slung open, slack as when a mind abandons consciousness
S4 this is a bit weak (comparatively) due to the repetitions of 'no' and 'or'
which don't seem to be as emphatic as one might expect.
Also, what warning does N give?
Aren't 'sign from Yahweh' and 'rainbow' synonymous?
L20 I think the repetition of 'they' and the contraction weakens this line.
'Did not' would be stronger.
So, this is probably thin commentary for mild, but I think declaring it a dream (especially right off the bat) ruins the whole. It produces an eye roll and an “oh well” from your audience. How much stronger would it be if you trusted your reader?
(12-12-2017, 09:39 AM)nibbed Wrote: It taught me something to remember/consider
when writing. Such as? Don't make me guess, nibbler.
Ibid. It's an abbreviation you use in writing when you are needing to list multiple references from the same source. It was like I quickly traveled to a distant land and learned a foreign language, only it was easy and fun to go there and learn. There's this whole world I haven't even seen or touched. I know this is way out there and I haven't a great explanation, but it also made me think of blue jeans and a steak dinner with sweet potatoes.
(12-11-2017, 11:19 PM)Tiger the Lion Wrote: Wonderfully insightful crits by all and an edit considerate and worthy of them. Well done.
Thanks Tiger.
(12-12-2017, 12:00 AM)Knot Wrote: Hi Lizzie,
I think this is much improved (despite the fact that I am baffled by the title ),
but I do think you could be a bit more 'brutal' in your editing.
L4 perhaps 'defying' for 'flouting?
L5 I think you could do better than 'like', maybe 'stiff' or 'strong' or 'unripe'?
L6 I don't think you need either 'with' or 'and' a marching band, no music, no routine
L7 perhaps 'just' for 'with'?
L11 the repetition of 'eyes' and 'time' weakens this line, I think.
(consider 'duration' perhaps?)
Like the introduction of 'conductor' to tie-in with 'no music'
L15/16 could tighten these lines mouths slung open, slack as when a mind abandons consciousness
S4 this is a bit weak (comparatively) due to the repetitions of 'no' and 'or'
which don't seem to be as emphatic as one might expect.
Also, what warning does N give?
Aren't 'sign from Yahweh' and 'rainbow' synonymous?
L20 I think the repetition of 'they' and the contraction weakens this line.
'Did not' would be stronger.
Best, Knot.
Thanks for coming back to it, Knot. I'll give it another look in a couple of weeks when I can come to it with fresh eyes, and I will carefully look at all these points. Thanks again.
(12-12-2017, 09:50 AM)milo Wrote: So, this is probably thin commentary for mild, but I think declaring it a dream (especially right off the bat) ruins the whole. It produces an eye roll and an “oh well” from your audience. How much stronger would it be if you trusted your reader?
We'll find out. Thanks for the read, milo.
(12-12-2017, 01:27 PM)nibbed Wrote: Ibid. It's an abbreviation you use in writing when you are needing to list multiple references from the same source.
Yes, it does mean that. Although, I must confess something: I'm using it in the Good Will Hunting sense, the scene where he's defending himself in court. I don't even know if this is a legit usage, but I'm going with it.
(12-09-2017, 04:14 AM)Lizzie Wrote: Pleading With an Ibid's Hem
The dream began as they often do: familiar dread, unfamiliar place—--This opening is slightly flat. If the speaker is going to be a sort of modern Casandra then starting at something more meaningful would help. I'm not a real fan of familiar/unfamiliar only because it's predictable. children with the names I gave them, ages flouting linear time.
Men stood in rows like solemn corn—--I would probably start here. This is an interesting, vibrant image. It even has a hint of danger (waiting to be reaped). I could be missing something in the sequencing but I think the children could be reinserted later. a marching band missing a routine and music— with Paul Ryan's slicked black All-American hair, matching navy blue fitted suits, and placid eyes that followed--really like the break on followed. I think the Paul Ryan comparison lines are done well. the golden bullet gleaming overhead.--slightly reminds me of the Kennedy assassination--though I'm taking this more as a portent of coming wrath and judgment.
Their eyes were drawn in time--don't really like the repetition of eyes or time here. (something simpler and less repetitious. Maybe, "they tracked its line...sky") along its line through the sky, tuning to the mastery of a new conductor,--I keep wanting to replace tuning with "and tuned" mouths slung open the way they slack when the mind abandons consciousness.--condense these two lines perhaps.
There was no warning but mine,--Here is Casandra or sign from Yahweh— no rainbow or prepared ark.--Sequence the ark should precede the rainbow
They never looked down or to the side,--This is probably meant to also explain a rigid mindset. so they didn't see us wash away.--It's interesting (though not surprising with the political reference) that the judgment falls on the "us" not the "them". It's a good literary allusion to Noah--which in itself is a nod to end times statements.
Hello Todd, thanks so much for giving it a read. I think your take on the first stanza is similar to milo's, so that settles it for me that the first stanza needs to be cut or chopped up. But, certainly the dream part must go.
Thanks for the Cassandra reference, I didn't connect the two, but it's apt. I'll use that as a guide as I revise.
Hey Lizzie,
I've been meaning to critique this one for a bit. However, things kept distracting me. I like the imagery in this poem. I'll go into more detail below:
(12-09-2017, 04:14 AM)Lizzie Wrote: Pleading With an Ibid's Hem
The dream began as they often do: -I know a few others said to drop the dream aspect of the poem. I wonder what would happen if you ended on it? Just a thought. familiar dread, unfamiliar place— children with the names I gave them, ages flouting linear time. -The phrase "linear time" seems redundant to me. I would suggest dropping the word "linear".
Men stood in rows like solemn corn— -I like this simile. As pointed out by others, the implications of this line are thought provoking. a marching band missing a routine and music— -I found this image strange, but it works because of the dream aspect of the poem. with Paul Ryan's slicked black All-American hair, matching navy blue fitted suits, and placid eyes that followed -I could be missing something, but why are their eyes "placid"? To me, the images of the corn and music-less marching band seem to communicate feelings of anxiety and menace, so I don't get the "placid" here. If they're accepting their fates, why not describe their eyes as "dead"? the golden bullet gleaming overhead.
Their eyes were drawn in time along its line through the sky, -I know it's been pointed out about the repeating of "eyes" in the previous line and the previous stanza. Why not omit the first line of this stanza and start this line with "They watched" instead of "along"? tuning to the mastery of a new conductor, mouths slung open the way they slack when the mind abandons consciousness. -I like that you went back to the marching band image here. The way you describe it here also adds to the menacing feeling in this poem.
There was no warning but mine, -Who is the "mine" here? I feel like the speaker becoming directly involve so late in the poem a bit jarring. or sign from Yahweh— no rainbow or prepared ark. -I feel like this stanza came out of no where. Why does it get so religious? If that is the direction you wanted to go in, I would recommend setting it up in a previous stanza.
They never looked down or to the side, so they didn't see us wash away. -I like this ending. Personally, I feel like this would work just as well if you removed the previous stanza. Then the "wash away" could refer to a biblical flood, or something else, but it would be up to the reader to decide on the meaning.
The dream began as they always do: familiar dread, unfamiliar place— children with the names I gave them
and ages that make no sense in logical time.
Men stood in rows like solemn corn, like a marching band with no routine and no music, only Paul Ryan's slicked black All-American hair, navy blue fitted suits, and placid eyes that followed
the bullet gleaming golden overhead, the way that kittens fix on a wiggling string. Their faces showed no fear, no judgment, no signals of thought, just a silent ------wow------ and mouths slung open the way they slack when the mind abandons consciousness.
There was no covenant, or sign from Yahweh— no prepared ark.
They never looked down or to the side, so they didn't see us wash away.
Overall, I like what you're doing here, and I look forward to seeing your next draft.
(12-29-2017, 01:17 PM)Richard Wrote: The dream began as they often do: -I know a few others said to drop the dream aspect of the poem. I wonder what would happen if you ended on it? Just a thought.
Interesting suggestion! I'll play around with that, thank you! All of your comments were very helpful.
I appreciate you giving me your read on it and taking the time out from your holidays to do so.
Hi, Lizzie. While the title is interesting it remains a mystery to me. I think of Ibid as a footnote but here it is king. Well, it is a dream. Maybe. Some notes:
Quote:Pleading With an Ibid's Hem
The dream began as they often do:
familiar dread, unfamiliar place—
children with the names I gave them,
ages flouting linear time. I still like the opening, bringing the word dream in early makes the progression to nightmare stronger. I like linear because it stresses how the way most of us usually view time is shaken up here and it is a precurser to the "rows" below.
Men stood in rows like solemn corn—
a marching band missing a routine and music—
with Paul Ryan's slicked black All-American hair,
matching navy blue fitted suits,
and placid eyes that followed
the golden bullet gleaming overhead. I like placid because it bring with it an acceptance of the sitiuation.
Their eyes were drawn in time
along its line through the sky,
tuning to the mastery of a new conductor,
mouths slung open the way they slack
when the mind abandons consciousness. I like the repeat of time and line, used in a new way. You might consider tuned instead of tuning.
There was no warning but mine,
or sign from Yahweh—
no rainbow or prepared ark. I like the surprise of this strophe. While in fact it moves the story along, it makes a quick shift, the way dreams can do. I'm not sure you need "but mine" but it doesn't bother me.
They never looked down or to the side,
so they didn't see us wash away. Strong and finite end to the threat. Interesting that the opening labels it a dream instead of a nightmare, a dream that became a nightmare.
For me the political implications here are strong and tragic. Well done.
billy wrote:welcome to the site. make it your own, wear it like a well loved slipper and wear it out. ella pleads:please click forum titles for posting guidelines, important threads. New poet? Try Poetic DevicesandWard's Tips
Don't make me guess, nibbler. 
